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  • spinkingspinking    3,738 posts
    Im on board with what your saying Falc. Beluga caviar and Foie gras dont come cheap these days
  • LETSDOTHISLETSDOTHIS    298 posts
    What would you suggest to get people
    Involved Falcon? These events all need to the proper people involved to get paid etc so of course they have to charge quite a bit.
  • LETSDOTHISLETSDOTHIS    298 posts
    I see how a lot of people sinking the boot in but very few suggesting ideas to get people involved in ownership
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    ^^ impressive racing, oz racing, paul jordans syndicates are well respected avenues for anybody wanting to get involved.

    agree spinking but cheese and bickies and a few dips do not break the bank....
    :-B

    Thunderstruck, spinking likes this post.

  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    7,676 posts
    Flanders said:

    My opinion is - If people want to be involved they can decide for themselves if the money being asked for is something they can afford/justify. Just because someone else thinks it is overs doesn't mean it is a scam or whatever. There are heaps of people who can't afford to be an owner or part-owner of a horse in the traditional way so why not let them have a taste and just leave it at that?


    Or are there axes being ground here?



    No mate zero agenda I'd say from all critics, questions have been asked as to why it is seen fit to collect up to 200k a month on an ongoing basis to train six horses LOL(think you have a good idea how much this costs yeh??)if you think that isn't taking the piss then that's your call and as you said it's the call of the victims oops i mean customers.

    And Spink you said 200? there are TEN THOUSAND shares for sale might be off a bit with the 200 ticky theory :))

    JimmyPop, thefalcon likes this post.

  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    7,676 posts
    edited April 2021
    ^^ last comment from me on this(someone might get pierced off), those figures are per state so times the surplus fees 4 fold.
  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,235 posts
    I think if you go into it with an expectation of meeting new people, being apart of a membership group and for the social aspect only then it's a great setup. The horse ownership side is a bonus.

    Cost wise, I've always found functions held at Perth racing pretty good. I'm more of a pay more get all inclusive person but can understand the overheads and costs associated with these functions.

    Good luck to all

    Flanders likes this post.

  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    who is overall in charge of the readies?
  • ThunderstruckThunderstruck    7,676 posts
    Steve Brown marketing guy(guru)on the other thread there may be a bit more info about him..or Google him.
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    anybody see how many were up in the directors 100 buck fab feast?
  • psychopsycho    652 posts
    How many posters on this site actually attend race meetings on a regular basis would be interesting to know ?

    JayJay likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    I know some are in circumstances that don't permit attendance but some of the most vociferous experts would need a hurricane lamp and google maps to find the course, any course, metro or country. It doesn't mean they are not entitled to opinions but as so called supporters of the industry, it grates me somewhat that they don't bother to attend yet will readily give you a run down of what's wrong with all and sundry.

    Manchild likes this post.

  • RodentRodent    7,024 posts
    Isn't betting turnover the big supporter of the industry?

    JimmyPop, Manchild likes this post.

  • psychopsycho    652 posts
    Rodent said:

    Isn't betting turnover the big supporter of the industry?

    I was not having a shot at anyone on here, it just seems that a few people were wondering how the "Black Heart" function went. I would assume those people were probably not on track and considering the very few regular racegoers these days I wonder how many on this forum are regulars on course. There appears to be the same amount of people on course every week approx 1500 maybe !!!! with perhaps 300-500 who go each week the others blowins who go once in a while
  • psychopsycho    652 posts
    Rodent said:

    Isn't betting turnover the big supporter of the industry?

    Sorry Rodent I just took another look and assumed you were kind of directing that comment my way, anyway I answered towards you  :-j
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    you are spot on, psycho. i've been a member for decades but rarely go on course. why? the joint is as dead as a dodo, the 3 or 4 bookies are like bloody statues and don't mention the price of singing syrup.
    you'll have to wait for an attendee or a "spy" to see how many were at the Bart Show as it was up in the members area.
    light globe moment: does anybody know Brittany as she was the sort of hostess?
    over to the budding MI5's...
  • NgawyniNgawyni    738 posts
    The other thread on this topic appears to have been deleted!
  • NgawyniNgawyni    738 posts
    But the ad saying Blackhearts can "Pick your jockey each race" is still up.

    So delete the thread with the legitimate questions but leave the misleading advertising.
  • spinkingspinking    3,738 posts
    Correct Ngawyni. It has been deleted. The same as the yellow background on here advertising it. I. Reckon if there is much more discussed about It here , that this thread may also disappear. I thought some of the questions asked where more than valid

    Ngawyni likes this post.

  • NgawyniNgawyni    738 posts
    edited April 2021

    For those
    that missed the discussion on the quickly deleted other thread, it began with a
    post containing  a media release announcing
    the Blackhearts’ first purchase – Incheon Express.

    The media
    release mentioned Incheon Express’ impressive first up 5 length win at Ballarat
    and that it ran 3
    rd at its next start at the Sunshine Coast in July.

    Apparently,
    it was purchased by TRL (for the Blackhearts) for $150,000 plus GST (this wasn’t
    mentioned in the media release but is stated elsewhere).

    The post
    said the horse had been sold to Hong Kong for “massive money” but the sale fell
    over because of a low grade veterinary issue.

    What wasn’t
    mentioned is that at its third and most recent start in December, Incheon
    Express was beaten 6.75 lengths when 4
    th in a class 1 at Doomben.

    The horse
    clearly has (or had) ability as demonstrated by its first start win.
      It’s next two starts raise questions. My
    point was, if you’re going to ask people to put money in, they should have all
    the information.

    Also interesting
    is that Incheon Express, has had 3 starts, each for a different trainer, and appears
    to have changed hands at least once before being sold to The Racing League.
     

    Chris likes this post.

  • NgawyniNgawyni    738 posts
    edited April 2021

    Next, the deleted
    thread also attacked the amount of spin involved in promoting this product.
     

    While the advertising,
    including on this website, invites people to join for “only $200” and get “ownership
    benefits” including “choose your trainer” and “pick your jockey each race” and “get
    invited to exclusive race day events”, the reality is:
     


    • The true cost is much more than
      $200. There are further charges of $20/month and $60 per unit each January
      (to buy a further 2 horses per year until the team has 10 horses), so the
      total cost for one unit is $200 entry plus $300 pa. If you buy more than
      one unit the $20 per month becomes $5 a month for the second and each
      subsequent unit.  I don’t know, because
      I haven’t seen the fine print, how a unit holder can bail out if they want
      or need to avoid the ongoing liability.
       

    • TRL is likely to decide who
      trains which horse. The panel of 6 WA trainers has already been chosen by
      a vote. Unit holders were asked to choose a panel of 6 from, I believe, a
      list of 7 trainers. And as for who now trains Incheon Express, another TRL
      media release says:
       

    “We will be asking Blackhearts owners their thoughts
    on who should train Incheon Express. TRL’s Bloodstock Team will take
    Blackheart’s owners’ ideas on board before allocating the trainer to Incheon
    Express for the Blackhearts.” 

                    https://www.trl.net/news/was-off-to-the-races-aboard-the-incheon-express/ 


    • It’s unlikely you will be picking
      your jockey each race (how would that work anyway?). TRL’s website says:
       

                    Jockeys
    will be selected by a team’s elected trainers

    -              TRL
    management believe in trusting our experienced trainers to choose the most
    suitable jockey for a particular horse

    -              Team
    managers may occasionally discuss jockey selections with trainers 

                    https://www.blackhearts.net/what-is-trl/#who-will-train-the-horses 


    • And the exclusive race day events
      won’t be cheap either. The one last Saturday cost $106.59.
       

    I wish
    everyone who puts their money in luck. But I think people are entitled to have
    a clearer understanding of what they're getting into before they decide.

    Chris likes this post.

  • ChrisChris    5,218 posts
    Thanks, we wish you luck in life too

    thefalcon dislikes this post.

  • NgawyniNgawyni    738 posts
    edited April 2021
    Not sure what your point is. This is a forum for exchanging opinions and information. 

    thefalcon likes this post.

  • ChrisChris    5,218 posts
    Yes, that was mine?

    thefalcon dislikes this post.

  • ChrisChris    5,218 posts
    Last event cost $100, no doubting that
  • thefalconthefalcon    19,949 posts
    chris, me old mate. i do not know your involvement in this promotion but it is obvious some questions need honest answers.
    what did the promoters pay for i. express, the one they are asking 150k for....thats a lot of money for what appears to be a flash in the pan. i'd ask froggy  what he thought.
    i remember when we bought one from godolphin, 5 starts, one win and a placing..looked good. wrong!! told a prominent trainer while having a frothie at the OBH what we had done, he on the spot phoned the nsw jock..."no good, mate, bad breather and 100% future bleeder". how right he was!!
    apart from being a unit holder, chris (i assume) i hope your association ends there.

    btw where can my mate get a cube..?
  • ChrisChris    5,218 posts
    how'd the second bite of the cherry for Essayez go @thefalcon?
  • Vincent_vegaVincent_vega    463 posts
    this RL seems seems like something from the BV bag of tricks

    savethegame likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
     Poor Billy was driven by low self esteem---thought touching them for 18mil; then he would feel accepted- also did he belt himself up thinking  no-one would come after him.
  • NgawyniNgawyni    738 posts

    To be fair, there’s absolutely nothing to suggest TRL is doing anything
    improper. The advertising has been misleading in places but, otherwise, they have put
    forward a legitimate offer, with the details set out in the PDS, which people
    can choose to buy into or not. Anyone who reads the PDS will know what they’re
    getting into.

    Two things in the PDS stick out for me.

    First, we know the price of one unit is $200 on top of which
    there are ongoing charges of $20 a month and $60 each January – so an
    additional $300 each year. However, as the PDS states on p 8, “An investor is
    buying a Unit for an indefinite period, as there is no specified end date of
    the Scheme. The Scheme will continue to operate until its determined that the
    Scheme be wound up”.

    And, there’s no easy way out.

    On p 8, the PDS states “Unit Holders have no right to
    require the Responsible Entity to redeem Units or to buy them back at any time
    during the life of the Scheme. However Unit Holders may transfer the Units to
    some other person with the approval of the Responsible Entity, at its
    discretion”.

    And on p 16, the PDS states “The Responsible Entity may
    bring an action against a Unit Holder to collect all amounts due. . . The
    Responsible Entity is not obligated to sell the units within any specific
    period of time and in any event may be unable to do so. The liability for
    ongoing costs associated with the Units may not be avoided by abandoning those
    Units”.

    On p 18, the PDS also say the Responsible Entity has the right
    to sell the Unit Holder’s Unit and to deduct any outstanding monies from the
    proceeds, but, as stated above, they may be unable to do so.

    So if a Unit Holder wants out, to avoid the ongoing monthly
    and annual costs, they may have to find someone themselves to sell or give
    their unit to.

    Secondly, the PDS states that while the initial $200
    purchase price and the annual $60 charge will be used to buy horses,
     the additional $20 per month per unit (or $5
    per month per unit for the second and subsequent units if the Unit Holder buys
    more than one unit), referred to in the PDS as Periodic Class Dues, will be
    used to cover the Scheme’s operating expenses including a $10,000 one off Establishment
    Fee and a $25,000 annual fee both paid to Sire Custodians Ltd for acting as the
    responsible entity for the Scheme and – here’s the kicker – “The unexpended
    surplus will be made available to the Manager as its remuneration for performing
    the Manager’s duties, including providing the enhanced “The Racing League Ownership
    Experience””.
      The Manager is TRL.

    They are trying to sell 10,000 units per team – so that could
    potentially mean up to $200,000 per month or $2.4m a year being collected as Periodic
    Class Dues (though the actual amount will be less if people buy more than one
    unit each and if not all units are sold). Some of that money will be used to
    train up to 6 horses in the first year, up to 8 horses in the second year and
    up to 10 horses in the third and subsequent years. Some of the money will go in
    admin, marketing and compliance costs, but the rest will go to TRL as its
    reward. And that’s only for one team. There are 4 teams.

    So the bottom line is that, if someone buys one unit, their
    initial $200 outlay and the annual $60 charge will be used to buy horses and some
    of the additional $240 they put in each year will be spent on training and vet
    costs (not insurance because the PDS says the horses ordinarily won’t be
    insured and there will be a special levy if any of them are). But most of that
    $240 each year is likely to be taken up in other operating costs (admin, marketing
    etc) and by TRL.
      

    Lastly, on p 21, the PDS states that if a Scheme horse is
    sold for a profit, TRL will be paid a performance fee of 20% of the net profit
    and the trainer’s terms and conditions may also provide for the trainer to
    receive additional remuneration such as, by way of example only, 5% of the
    profit.

    https://www.blackhearts.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/pds_wa01.pdf

    Gilgamesh, thefalcon likes this post.

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