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GP- WA Trotters Cup (Gp1)

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  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts
    .
    AbbysAce said:

    JayJay said:

    Race 2 Dec 24th GP.
    Inquiry adjourned, I have followed stewards reports and not seen a thing.

    Concluded yesterday, 12 day suspension starting midnight Feb 5th.
    Should have been double as made the same mistake several times.


    Did it the previous week to this incident

    westerncat likes this post.

  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    204 posts
    They need start suspending drivers so they miss these big races as a deterrent.absolutely laughable some of the stewards reports,all the big drivers have “racing incidents” where the lesser known drivers get suspended.
  • KTQKTQ    319 posts
    edited February 2022
    Emily's the one that's had 10 warnings for shifting out, causing interference, causing crossing, inconveniencing horses etc. The steward report for the Dec 24 incident notes her "very good record". 8 warnings ago she may have had a very good record. 7 warnings ago, she should have been suspended. I don't blame her for doing it repeatedly, I would too if I wasn't getting penalised for it.

    westerncat, freodockers likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Emily quite often has to put up with male drivers getting antsy when she goes to ease out because it offends them that they are being shifted by a female. Because of her light weight they can lay their cart all over hers and often force her in for longer than usual. If the inside runner has a clear advantage the outside driver is obliged to shift up....but quite often in her case they don't & marginal advantage can lead to contested interference. I think Deni & Jocelyn have almost given up trying to ease out for the same reason.

    Pinballwizard likes this post.

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  • westerncatwesterncat    28 posts
    Curmudgeon- Maybe you don’t understand the rules, because that statement seems mostly based on your feeling, and intangibles.. in the race on Feb 24th, it was an illegal move to come off period, you aren’t allowed to push two horses.. either she didn’t know there was a horse 3 wide, or didn’t care.. stewards report saying Low-Mid level is insanity, basically a miracle the whole field didn’t go down,
    If that’s not 6 weeks, nothing is!

    Set the horse back behind the ones that were knocked over, That will stop it..

    freodockers likes this post.

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    If she was entitled to push out then she wouldn’t have got suspended.
    It was severe not mid level.
    She almost brought half the field down.
    It happened in the home straight toward the finish line.
    All MASSIVE no no’s.
    She should have got six weeks and it could have been done on the night.
    Instead RWWA either allowed the case to be delayed or Emily was allowed to delay the case so she could drive over the big races.
    RWWA integrity “my arse”.
    It is clear they want “professional” drivers driving for turnover.
    Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

    westerncat likes this post.

  • Cant_RefuseCant_Refuse    198 posts

    Emily quite often has to put up with male drivers getting antsy when she goes to ease out because it offends them that they are being shifted by a female. Because of her light weight they can lay their cart all over hers and often force her in for longer than usual. If the inside runner has a clear advantage the outside driver is obliged to shift up....but quite often in her case they don't & marginal advantage can lead to contested interference. I think Deni & Jocelyn have almost given up trying to ease out for the same reason.


    What a load of rubbish

    westerncat likes this post.

  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    163. Offence relating to matters during the race
    (1) A driver shall not: -
    (a) cause or contribute to any (amended GG 13/05/16)
    (i) crossing
    (ii) jostling
    (iii) interference; (b) subject to rule 164
    (i) make another horse cover more ground than necessary (renumbered GG
    6/12/19
    (ii) impede the forward progress of another horse; (added GG 6/12/19)
    164. No clear passage
    The Controlling Body may determine the circumstances in which a driver who does not have a
    clear passage in the course of a race may take action to secure such a passage.
      LR164. Changing Positions (Easing Out)
    (1) Notwithstanding Rule 163(1) (b), a driver may make another horse cover more ground than
    necessary where;
    (a) the driver does so on or after entering the front straight with one lap of the race to
    run provided that any horse being made to cover extra ground is obliged to race no
    wider than three wide until entering the back straight on the final occasion; or
    (b) the driver does so prior to entering the front straight with one lap of the race to run,
    and the other horse is not maintaining or improving its position,
    and provided that the driver does so only to the extent necessary to obtain an improved position for the
    driver’s horse.
    (2) For the obviation of doubt, nothing in this local rule authorises any act which is contrary to any
    rule other than Rule 163(1) (b). (amended

    These are the relevant rules @freodockers & @westerncat .Perhaps you can apply them to the vision & give us your interpretation of events.? I don't claim to be a steward but I have a pair of eyes that are just ok & an opinion from time to time.
    Also I am aware there are different camps in this game & never shall they meet in their assessment of many incidents .....for reasons other than objective assessment of the facts.
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    She got suspended.
    So she is guilty of an offence.
    Viewing the incident to me it was a very careless and dangerous manoeuvre.
    I haven’t read the stewards report.
    I couldn’t give a toss if it was Chris Lewis.
    In my opinion it deserved a lot more than 12 days.
    Anyhow that is not the point that I am making.
    It is the blatant delay tactics that have been allowed or used to allow the offender to continue on.
    If I ran second to her in the cup I would protest on the grounds that she shouldn’t have been allowed to drive just for the hell of it.
    No doubt it would be dismissed, then I would appeal just to get all the facts out in the open.
    It stinks.

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,718 posts

    163. Offence relating to matters during the race
    (1) A driver shall not: -
    (a) cause or contribute to any (amended GG 13/05/16)
    (i) crossing
    (ii) jostling
    (iii) interference; (b) subject to rule 164
    (i) make another horse cover more ground than necessary (renumbered GG
    6/12/19
    (ii) impede the forward progress of another horse; (added GG 6/12/19)

    164. No clear passage
    The Controlling Body may determine the circumstances in which a driver who does not have a
    clear passage in the course of a race may take action to secure such a passage.
      LR164. Changing Positions (Easing Out)
    (1) Notwithstanding Rule 163(1) (b), a driver may make another horse cover more ground than
    necessary where;
    (a) the driver does so on or after entering the front straight with one lap of the race to
    run provided that any horse being made to cover extra ground is obliged to race no
    wider than three wide until entering the back straight on the final occasion; or
    (b) the driver does so prior to entering the front straight with one lap of the race to run,
    and the other horse is not maintaining or improving its position,
    and provided that the driver does so only to the extent necessary to obtain an improved position for the
    driver’s horse.
    (2) For the obviation of doubt, nothing in this local rule authorises any act which is contrary to any
    rule other than Rule 163(1) (b). (amended

    These are the relevant rules @freodockers & @westerncat .Perhaps you can apply them to the vision & give us your interpretation of events.? I don't claim to be a steward but I have a pair of eyes that are just ok & an opinion from time to time.
    Also I am aware there are different camps in this game & never shall they meet in their assessment of many incidents .....for reasons other than objective assessment of the facts.



    Haven’t read any report but I would use the term jostling out of what you have provided.

    It was the way she pretty much barged out, (I thought that use to be one of the terms used) the horse outside her at that stage was still pretty much holding it’s ground.

    Just my opinion as an undefeated arm chair driver but she got over zealous in the way she did it and could have easily brought a horse down at the front of the field. Also my opinion that she probably cost herself some ground in the process. Again just my opinion but she could have worked them out of the way with a more subtle movement, might have taken a bit longer but would have been closer to the leader still and got the same result. As a mad punter I hate when a driver looks to put in zero effort to move them but you also can’t go knocking them over. Channel your inner Andrew DeCampo.
  • westerncatwesterncat    28 posts
    Curmudgeon - as I stated, you have zero idea of the push out rule, YOU CANNOT PUSH A HORSE TO YOUR OUTSIDE, if there is a horse outside of it…. How isn’t this computing or logical to you? It was as dangerous a move as you’ll see…. It’s actually astonishing people watch races and come up with conclusions like you
  • westerncatwesterncat    28 posts
    Is she the only one? Far from it, there’s about 5 in the top 12 that regularly do it to some degree, that particular incident is just one it the worst you’ll see if it’s kind
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts

    Curmudgeon - as I stated, you have zero idea of the push out rule, YOU CANNOT PUSH A HORSE TO YOUR OUTSIDE, if there is a horse outside of it…. How isn’t this computing or logical to you? It was as dangerous a move as you’ll see…. It’s actually astonishing people watch races and come up with conclusions like you

    It's called the Ease Out Rule for a reason. You do realise that if you are being legitimately eased you have obligations to move with the shift not steer down and impede the inside runner when you are not holding your position effectively....unless you are covered by a horse to your outside....which is a different thing to just having a horse to your outside.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    edited February 2022

    Is she the only one? Far from it, there’s about 5 in the top 12 that regularly do it to some degree, that particular incident is just one it the worst you’ll see if it’s kind

    It happens alot but other drivers generally are able to activate there self preservation mode they are usually on tired legs and the incident passes in a heartbeat but  Maddison didn't have that luxury due to Ryan's wheel trailing hers & the beautiful American carts  which allow wheels to pop under shafts- bingo

    The blame seats with Emily trying to push out from behind Maddison intially. and things just got worse.horrible viewing reminds you of old country derbies.

    Fremantle  Cup night 2017  who could forget when Junior in the cup  pushed out from 3/4 length .behind Lewis on John of Arc.---incident fizzled out to be nothing  But junior made mention of lewis knowing he was gone and shifted outta the way.(with a little help)after the race as good  sportsmanship.

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  • westerncatwesterncat    28 posts
    You still don’t get it, YOU CANT PUSH WHEN THERE IS TWO HORSES TO YOUR OUTSIDE!! Period!! There is no ease out rule for pushing a horse out, when there is a horse outside of said horse.. this has zero to do with her being behind or in front of Maddison…. If she was 90% in front of Maddison, she was not allowed to ease out in this situation.. zero to do with American carts, it’s the ppl driving in them, and the fact stewards don’t apply penalties/set back rule to anyone offending
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    560 posts
    Interesting to see if/ when shes tries to ease on Moose tonight?

    She wont want to get it wrong again..............

    freodockers likes this post.

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    From memory STG I don’t think Lewis was too happy at the time. My recollection of the incident Lewis was on a forward move at the time.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts

    You still don’t get it, YOU CANT PUSH WHEN THERE IS TWO HORSES TO YOUR OUTSIDE!! Period!! There is no ease out rule for pushing a horse out, when there is a horse outside of said horse.. this has zero to do with her being behind or in front of Maddison…. If she was 90% in front of Maddison, she was not allowed to ease out in this situation.. zero to do with American carts, it’s the ppl driving in them, and the fact stewards don’t apply penalties/set back rule to anyone offending




    Sorry to ruin your confident angry typing but you can push as many as you want to your outside as long as each has an advantage on the next to it’s outside
  • westerncatwesterncat    28 posts
    edited February 2022
    Guess I’m wrong on that aspect then, let her off, nothing to see here, hopefully everyone starts doing it, should make for some big divis at times!!
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts

    You still don’t get it, YOU CANT PUSH WHEN THERE IS TWO HORSES TO YOUR OUTSIDE!! Period!! There is no ease out rule for pushing a horse out, when there is a horse outside of said horse.. this has zero to do with her being behind or in front of Maddison…. If she was 90% in front of Maddison, she was not allowed to ease out in this situation.. zero to do with American carts, it’s the ppl driving in them, and the fact stewards don’t apply penalties/set back rule to anyone offending




    Sorry to ruin your confident angry typing but you can push as many as you want to your outside as long as each has an advantage on the next to it’s outside
    Thank you Rocket. Usually I make an exit when someone explains the rules to me that obviously thinks they know them but in fact has no idea. As my old man used to say...you can't educate a mug.

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts

    Guess I’m wrong on that aspect then, let her off, nothing to see here, hopefully everyone starts doing it, should make for some big divis at times!!




    Didn’t say she didn’t do anything wrong was just throwing the rule out so maybe you could apologise for being so rude telling people they had no idea when it was you all along that had no clue

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Saw Kim Young old Richmond Raceway push out multiple horses from behind the leader on the final turn in for the finish.
    Went on to win the race with no interference.
    Was one of the best manoeuvres I have seen on a very tight track.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • KTQKTQ    319 posts

    If she was entitled to push out then she wouldn’t have got suspended.
    It was severe not mid level.
    She almost brought half the field down.
    It happened in the home straight toward the finish line.
    All MASSIVE no no’s.
    She should have got six weeks and it could have been done on the night.
    Instead RWWA either allowed the case to be delayed or Emily was allowed to delay the case so she could drive over the big races.
    RWWA integrity “my arse”.
    It is clear they want “professional” drivers driving for turnover.
    Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.




    They literally said they won't suspend top drivers because it'll be detrimental to turnover. Literally.

    She checked Star Of Diamonds in one of the Dec mares races pushing her out and nearly taking her legs on the final turn. Horse hasn't been the same since and we hope she's not stuffed.

  • westerncatwesterncat    28 posts
    Clearly not safe to do, hence the reason you don’t see it done without interference..,

    Curmudgeon- re read your ludicrous posts about makes/females.. intangibles, etc. and it’s interesting you’d be calling anyone a mug..
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,718 posts

    Saw Kim Young old Richmond Raceway push out multiple horses from behind the leader on the final turn in for the finish.
    Went on to win the race with no interference.
    Was one of the best manoeuvres I have seen on a very tight track.




    I think that might be why I get so frustrated watching horses bolting and not finding gaps now, just use to see drivers that were so talented at subtly moving one out of the way, gets mentioned a lot but is it mainly just down to the carts that it can look so bloody ugly at times in the current racing?

    Arapaho, savethegame likes this post.

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    TBH Gilga I see a few drivers and know of in the past who are hesitant to push out.
    Frustrating from a punters point of view but if your unsure the safety of the horse and drivers comes first.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Emily now understands you can’t push out from behind the horse to your outside. I found out the same way.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    As far as the carts are concerned it appears to happen a lot more in WA.
    My opinion start handing out some decent penalties and it will stop in an instant.
  • ArapahoArapaho    222 posts
    100 % Gilga these American carts wheels are roughly 150mm outside the confines of the cart or shafts, so when someone is pushing out and they are not wheel to wheel with the horse to their outside and that horse resists or keeps a straight line, then the wheel will go underneath the horse on the outside by 150mm before any shaft to shaft or horse to horse contact is made, which can cause major interference, or as we have seen 100s of times the locking of wheels..
    The old regal and carts of yesteryear, the wheels were directly underneath or in aligned with the shafts so the majority of times when contact was made it was shaft to shaft with no wheel underneath the body of the horse.
    Now with just about everyone having one of these so called speed carts, there is no advantage.
    So surely safety to both horse and driver would now be paramount and the use and safety of these carts should be looked into.
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    The incident that started this conversation had nothing to do with the cart.
    I have driven in those carts and never ever came close to locking wheels.
    As I said it happens more in WA than anywhere else in Australia.
    Yes we probably drive tighter but I rarely see ACL cause wheels locking or SJS for that matter.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Perfect example Vultin Tin drops his wheel in front of Nota Bene Denario  back leg between the turns hope the horse is okay stopped him coming on.

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