Comments worth a post but not a thread of their own

freodockers · March 2022

I have all up place.
Tepelo Star into Sagatios into Quick Mamba.

KTQ · March 2022

High Price is back in the draw after only one trial. How is that possible? Apparently we're counting educationals as barrier jump outs now but we can't qualify in educationals, nor can you do a satisfactory trial in an educational. Stewards need to do some explaining.

0.1 of a second is too slow for satisfactory but jogging a lap behind the mobile against horses that have never raced in a 45.7 lead time is considered a satisfactory jump out. Lol feckin lol

JayJay · March 2022

It has completed one trial and followed that up with a J/O, that is, it has faced the barrier satisfactorily twice which is all it has to do. I think you are being a little harsh, they have just followed the policy as it currently stands..

Chariotsonfire · March 2022

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/at-ukrainian-racetrack-just-trying-to-survive/

As we debate trivialities spare a thought for those enthusiasts in Ukraine.

The above article indicates stake money of $10 or $15 in 2005.

KTQ · March 2022

JayJay said:
It has completed one trial and followed that up with a J/O, that is, it has faced the barrier satisfactorily twice which is all it has to do. I think you are being a little harsh, they have just followed the policy as it currently stands..

educationals don't count as barrier trials. Educationals are for education, you jog behind the mobile for a lap in order for the horse to become comfortable with the barrier - the complete opposite situation of a race

Arapaho · March 2022

Going by the results,Think you will find the trial High Price did its jump out in, was a official 2yo and 3yo trial, it was also nominated for a educational trial the same day 13th Mar.but was scratched ,this was following its trial at Pinjarra on the 9th of March.

So all good

KTQ · March 2022

Arapaho said:
Going by the results,Think you will find the trial High Price did its jump out in, was a official 2yo and 3yo trial, it was also nominated for a educational trial the same day 13th Mar.but was scratched ,this was following its trial at Pinjarra on the 9th of March.
So all good

did an educational on March 9 and then proper trial on March 13 according to trial results. First trial of the day counts towards horse's record, second trial doesn't.

Arapaho · March 2022

ok trial on 9th was a educational,

Sorry, you have a point

freodockers · March 2022

Educational trials are NOT qualifying trials so KTQ has a very valid point.

savethegame · March 2022

Notice Armed Reactor now listed as L7/ HWOE 22,985 in nominations if this is correct it would've been ineligible to contest the race it won at g.p on the 15th march tues.

JayJay · March 2022

I can find the reference to the horses "first trial on any day" as being the one that counts but can find no reference to the term "educational trial" at all in the Trots WA magazine (page 87/88) dealing with qualifying, re-qualifying or re-inclusion in the barrier draw........but I may be looking in the wrong place??

freodockers · March 2022

That’s probably because there isn’t one.

getthechange · March 2022

Like Jay Jay also cant find educational trial in WA trots magazine but did find what is possibly a recent change at

www.rwwa.com.au

go to Harness

go to racing office

go to racing policies and general racing info (march 2022)

go to page 15 – point 10

10. A horse wishing to qualify or have a bar removed must
trial in an official trial and
not an education trial

JayJay · March 2022

You're a bloodhound Col, March 2022 suggests it is a very recent change??? Like yesterday?

getthechange · March 2022

question remains

If a education trial isnt an official trial does it count or not count if the horse trials in an official trial later in the day

ie

first official trial of the day counts and second official trial doesnt but does that apply if the first is an educational trial

savethegame · March 2022

Educational trials has never had any bearing regarding meeting qualifying conditions or having any bans removed. Have seen Mobile starters in conjuction with drivers discussing the speed of mobile as they are going around purely to get more experience into first timers and others with tractability issues they may even do extra laps before they get on gate. to let go..

Pandoras Sioux 13/09/ 2014 stood down 6 days 1 trial. then trailed 29/09/2014 -----In educational trial was passed to race.--- Next start----- Led and broke horse following driver tipped out knocked unconscious. 3/10/2014.----.

KTQ · March 2022

A trial is meant to mimic race conditions. At what race meet can you follow the mobile around for a lap in the race prior to increase your chances of your horse not galloping in its actual race?

curmudgeon · March 2022

GTC......If you combine your earlier post (Point 10) & and the highlighted section below it would seem not...... if only the first trial is recorded & that is an educational trial then in essence it means nothing officially & the second trial is invalid in relation to the ban. By trialling twice it may be possible that you can shoot yourself in the foot ( although with horses it would seem the right thing to do as far as experience & education goes.)

3.21 REMOVING A BAR - EXCLUDED FROM THE DRAW OR BARRED FROM
RACING
The following procedure shall be observed where a trainer wishes to have a horse re-included into the barrier
draw and or have a bar removed from a horse, which is barred from starting in the particular start format.
Mobile Barrier Races
To be re-included in the barrier draw for mobile start races a horse shall;
a) Complete the required number of consecutive satisfactory race or trial starts from the mobile barrier. For
a start to be considered satisfactory the horse must have displayed satisfactory behaviour before and
during the score up and for 100 metres after the start. In addition the horse must have been within one
metre of its allocated barrier position from the “Candy Pole” to the start point.
b) When eligible for re-inclusion in the draw the trainer must make application to the RWWA Stewards for
the ODM to be removed.

Barred From Racing (and/or excluded from barrier draw)
The following policy shall apply in relation to Racing Bars (Rule 101, 103 and 134).
1) From time to time the Stewards impose various racing bars on horses without conducting a formal inquiry.
This procedure is necessitated by the limited time available between races for dealing with such matters.
Such decisions are made based on the Stewards observations of the race and in some cases after
discussions with the driver of the horse concerned.
When a trainer receives a racing bar notification from the Stewards and disagrees with the Stewards
decision, he may request the Stewards to review their decision. Any such request must be made as soon as
possible after the trainer receives the racing bar notification.
2) A horse barred from racing until it completes a number of satisfactory trials shall not be trialled on the day
the bar is imposed or trialled twice on the same day, for the purpose of having the bar removed. Only the
horse’s first trial on any day shall be recorded. For a trial to be considered satisfactory the horse must display
satisfactory behaviour before and during the start and at all stages of the trial irrespective of the reason for
the bar being imposed.
3) The Stewards may bar horses from racing for unsoundness, an unsatisfactory performance and
unsatisfactory behaviour at the barrier or during a race.
a) At the time a bar is imposed, the trainer of the horse will be advised of the nature of the bar placed on
the horse.
b) Except in the case of a bar for a specified period of time, which shall be removed after its expiry, the
trainer of the barred horse must make application to the RWWA Stewards for the bar to be removed.
4) All horse barred to trials must complete the trial in a mile rate not slower than the qualifying time for its class.
5) Where a horse is barred to more than one satisfactory trial, the satisfactory trials must be completed
consecutively before the bar will be removed.

Markovina · March 2022

Just out of interest re Trials

If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what

PackedMetalPanda · March 2022

Markovina said:
Just out of interest re Trials

If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what

Just needs to trial and begin safely from the tapes to qualify to race.

KTQ · March 2022

PackedMetalPanda said:

Markovina said:
Just out of interest re Trials

If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what

Just needs to trial and begin safely from the tapes to qualify to race.

it doesn't even need to begin safely. You will just start ODS in any races. You have to trial but the trial means eff all

KTQ · March 2022

curmudgeon said:
GTC......If you combine your earlier post (Point 10) & and the highlighted section below it would seem not...... if only the first trial is recorded & that is an educational trial then in essence it means nothing officially & the second trial is invalid in relation to the ban. By trialling twice it may be possible that you can shoot yourself in the foot ( although with horses it would seem the right thing to do as far as experience & education goes.)

3.21 REMOVING A BAR - EXCLUDED FROM THE DRAW OR BARRED FROM
RACING
The following procedure shall be observed where a trainer wishes to have a horse re-included into the barrier
draw and or have a bar removed from a horse, which is barred from starting in the particular start format.
Mobile Barrier Races
To be re-included in the barrier draw for mobile start races a horse shall;
a) Complete the required number of consecutive satisfactory race or trial starts from the mobile barrier. For
a start to be considered satisfactory the horse must have displayed satisfactory behaviour before and
during the score up and for 100 metres after the start. In addition the horse must have been within one
metre of its allocated barrier position from the “Candy Pole” to the start point.
b) When eligible for re-inclusion in the draw the trainer must make application to the RWWA Stewards for
the ODM to be removed.

Barred From Racing (and/or excluded from barrier draw)
The following policy shall apply in relation to Racing Bars (Rule 101, 103 and 134).
1) From time to time the Stewards impose various racing bars on horses without conducting a formal inquiry.
This procedure is necessitated by the limited time available between races for dealing with such matters.
Such decisions are made based on the Stewards observations of the race and in some cases after
discussions with the driver of the horse concerned.
When a trainer receives a racing bar notification from the Stewards and disagrees with the Stewards
decision, he may request the Stewards to review their decision. Any such request must be made as soon as
possible after the trainer receives the racing bar notification.
2) A horse barred from racing until it completes a number of satisfactory trials shall not be trialled on the day
the bar is imposed or trialled twice on the same day, for the purpose of having the bar removed. Only the
horse’s first trial on any day shall be recorded. For a trial to be considered satisfactory the horse must display
satisfactory behaviour before and during the start and at all stages of the trial irrespective of the reason for
the bar being imposed.
3) The Stewards may bar horses from racing for unsoundness, an unsatisfactory performance and
unsatisfactory behaviour at the barrier or during a race.
a) At the time a bar is imposed, the trainer of the horse will be advised of the nature of the bar placed on
the horse.
b) Except in the case of a bar for a specified period of time, which shall be removed after its expiry, the
trainer of the barred horse must make application to the RWWA Stewards for the bar to be removed.
4) All horse barred to trials must complete the trial in a mile rate not slower than the qualifying time for its class.
5) Where a horse is barred to more than one satisfactory trial, the satisfactory trials must be completed
consecutively before the bar will be removed.

The bold is exactly what I'm pissed about. It was IN THE RULES that only the first trial counts!!! WHY HAS NOTHING BEEN DONE ABOUT MOVING IT TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE FIELD!! Dad rang the stewards to question this and the usual "we'll investigate and get back to you" results in no one getting back to him.

Chariotsonfire · March 2022

KTQ I can remember one of your team not completing a satisfactory trial and it was accepted in the field and the trainer allowed it to start and it transgressed again. Short memory.

getthechange · March 2022

KTQ said:

PackedMetalPanda said:

Markovina said:
Just out of interest re Trials

If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what

Just needs to trial and begin safely from the tapes to qualify to race.

it doesn't even need to begin safely. You will just start ODS in any races. You have to trial but the trial means eff all

not at Byford - we trialed Maestro Bellini in a stand and he began badly - requested he be qualified ODS as we were going to start off back marks and were told you cant qualify ODS

JayJay · March 2022

Correct GTC, have experienced that exact same rule....and fair enough. Had to go back the next week.

getthechange · March 2022

query in point 10 was whether an educational trial is or isnt an official trial

0ne assumes yes and any other trial on the day cant get a horse`s bar lifted

but

point 10 suggests an education trial may not be an official trial- if it isnt an official trial and a horse starts in the education trial then in another trial is that trial its first official trial ?

should/do stewards have the discretionary power to allow a horse to have the second trial counted if the horse MSI in the score up or in the run in the earlier trial ?

10. A horse wishing to qualify or have a bar removed must
trial in an official trial and
not an education trial

curmudgeon · March 2022

Educational trials are an official educational trial run under a different format to official race trials & for a different purpose .....which according to point 10 has obviously been deemed as not an acceptable format in terms of consideration insofar as the lifting of bans is concerned..

It's clutching at straws to suggest the point of point 10 is anything but unequivocal I would think.

KTQ · March 2022

Chariotsonfire said:
KTQ I can remember one of your team not completing a satisfactory trial and it was accepted in the field and the trainer allowed it to start and it transgressed again. Short memory.

If a horse is not stopped by field selectors to start, why on earth would a trainer say oh no sir, you've mucked up. We want to do another trial please! People are paid to watch trials and either issue yes good you can race or no you have to retrial. That is literally their job. If you go to nom a horse and there are no bars, why on earth would you not nominate? Why would you think Nah I'd rather drive 4hrs and pay $30 because he has previously galloped even though we've made changes and he doesn't gallop at home

Chariotsonfire · March 2022

Stewards were totally incorrect but there should be a duty of care on the trainers part as well.

KTQ · March 2022

getthechange said:
query in point 10 was whether an educational trial is or isnt an official trial
0ne assumes yes and any other trial on the day cant get a horse`s bar lifted
but
point 10 suggests an education trial may not be an official trial- if it isnt an official trial and a horse starts in the education trial then in another trial is that trial its first official trial ?

should/do stewards have the discretionary power to allow a horse to have the second trial counted if the horse MSI in the score up or in the run in the earlier trial ?

10. A horse wishing to qualify or have a bar removed must
trial in an official trial and
not an education trial

Like I said earlier, trials need to mimic race situations. You can't have a mobile jump out practice on race day. If you gallop in your trial, that's it. You don't get a second trial to try to qualify again

G'day Punter!

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