G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

0 Members & 24 Non Members

Comments worth a post but not a thread of their own

Harness & Greyhounds

Comments

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    I have all up place.
    Tepelo Star into Sagatios into Quick Mamba.
  • KTQKTQ    319 posts
    High Price is back in the draw after only one trial. How is that possible? Apparently we're counting educationals as barrier jump outs now but we can't qualify in educationals, nor can you do a satisfactory trial in an educational. Stewards need to do some explaining.

    0.1 of a second is too slow for satisfactory but jogging a lap behind the mobile against horses that have never raced in a 45.7 lead time is considered a satisfactory jump out. Lol feckin lol

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    It has completed one trial and followed that up with a J/O, that is, it has faced the barrier satisfactorily twice which is all it has to do. I think you are being a little harsh, they have just followed the policy as it currently stands..
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/at-ukrainian-racetrack-just-trying-to-survive/

    As we debate trivialities spare a thought for those enthusiasts in Ukraine.

    The above article indicates stake money of $10 or $15 in 2005.
  • KTQKTQ    319 posts
    JayJay said:

    It has completed one trial and followed that up with a J/O, that is, it has faced the barrier satisfactorily twice which is all it has to do. I think you are being a little harsh, they have just followed the policy as it currently stands..


    educationals don't count as barrier trials. Educationals are for education, you jog behind the mobile for a lap in order for the horse to become comfortable with the barrier - the complete opposite situation of a race

    Arapaho likes this post.

  • ArapahoArapaho    222 posts
    Going by the results,Think you will find the trial High Price did its jump out in, was a official 2yo and 3yo trial, it was also  nominated for a educational trial the same day 13th Mar.but was scratched ,this was following its trial at Pinjarra on the 9th of March.
    So all good
  • KTQKTQ    319 posts
    Arapaho said:

    Going by the results,Think you will find the trial High Price did its jump out in, was a official 2yo and 3yo trial, it was also  nominated for a educational trial the same day 13th Mar.but was scratched ,this was following its trial at Pinjarra on the 9th of March.

    So all good

    did an educational on March 9 and then proper trial on March 13 according to trial results. First trial of the day counts towards horse's record, second trial doesn't.
  • ArapahoArapaho    222 posts
    ok trial on 9th was a educational,
    Sorry, you have a point
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Educational trials are NOT qualifying trials so KTQ has a very valid point.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Notice Armed Reactor now listed as   L7/ HWOE 22,985 in nominations   if this is  correct it would've been ineligible to  contest the race it  won at g.p on the 15th march tues.

    Arapaho likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    I can find the reference to the horses "first trial on any day" as being the one that counts but can find no reference to the term "educational trial" at all  in the Trots WA magazine (page 87/88) dealing with qualifying, re-qualifying or re-inclusion in the barrier draw........but I may be looking in the wrong place??
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    That’s probably because there isn’t one.
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts

    Like Jay Jay also cant find educational trial in WA trots magazine but did find what is possibly a recent change at

    www.rwwa.com.au

    go to Harness

    go to racing office

    go to racing policies and general racing info (march 2022)

    go to page 15 – point 10

    10. A horse wishing to qualify or have a bar removed must
    trial in an official trial and
    not an education trial

    JayJay likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    You're a bloodhound Col, March 2022 suggests it is a very recent change??? Like yesterday?
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    question remains
    If a education trial isnt an official trial does it count or not count if the horse trials in an official trial later in the day
    ie
    first official trial of the day counts and second official trial doesnt  but does that apply if the first is an educational trial
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
     Educational trials  has never had any bearing regarding meeting  qualifying  conditions  or having any bans removed.  Have seen Mobile  starters  in conjuction with drivers discussing the speed of mobile as they are going around   purely to get more  experience  into  first timers and others with tractability issues they   may even do extra laps before they get on gate. to let go..

    Pandoras Sioux  13/09/ 2014 stood down 6 days 1 trial. then trailed 29/09/2014 -----In  educational trial was   passed to race.--- Next start-----  Led and broke horse following driver tipped out knocked unconscious. 3/10/2014.----.

    freodockers, Arapaho likes this post.

  • KTQKTQ    319 posts
    A trial is meant to mimic race conditions. At what race meet can you follow the mobile around for a lap in the race prior to increase your chances of your horse not galloping in its actual race?
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    GTC......If you combine your earlier post (Point 10) & and the highlighted section below it would seem not...... if only the first trial is recorded & that is an educational trial then in essence it means nothing officially & the second trial is invalid in relation to the ban. By trialling twice it may be possible that you can shoot yourself in the foot ( although with horses it would seem the right thing to do as far as experience & education goes.) 


     
    3.21 REMOVING A BAR - EXCLUDED FROM THE DRAW OR BARRED FROM
    RACING

    The following procedure shall be observed where a trainer wishes to have a horse re-included into the barrier
    draw and or have a bar removed from a horse, which is barred from starting in the particular start format.
    Mobile Barrier Races
    To be re-included in the barrier draw for mobile start races a horse shall;
    a) Complete the required number of consecutive satisfactory race or trial starts from the mobile barrier. For
    a start to be considered satisfactory the horse must have displayed satisfactory behaviour before and
    during the score up and for 100 metres after the start. In addition the horse must have been within one
    metre of its allocated barrier position from the “Candy Pole” to the start point.
    b) When eligible for re-inclusion in the draw the trainer must make application to the RWWA Stewards for
    the ODM to be removed.

    Barred From Racing (and/or excluded from barrier draw)
    The following policy shall apply in relation to Racing Bars (Rule 101, 103 and 134).
    1) From time to time the Stewards impose various racing bars on horses without conducting a formal inquiry.
    This procedure is necessitated by the limited time available between races for dealing with such matters.
    Such decisions are made based on the Stewards observations of the race and in some cases after
    discussions with the driver of the horse concerned.
    When a trainer receives a racing bar notification from the Stewards and disagrees with the Stewards
    decision, he may request the Stewards to review their decision. Any such request must be made as soon as
    possible after the trainer receives the racing bar notification.
    2) A horse barred from racing until it completes a number of satisfactory trials shall not be trialled on the day
    the bar is imposed or trialled twice on the same day, for the purpose of having the bar removed. Only the
    horse’s first trial on any day shall be recorded.
    For a trial to be considered satisfactory the horse must display
    satisfactory behaviour before and during the start and at all stages of the trial irrespective of the reason for
    the bar being imposed.
    3) The Stewards may bar horses from racing for unsoundness, an unsatisfactory performance and
    unsatisfactory behaviour at the barrier or during a race.
    a) At the time a bar is imposed, the trainer of the horse will be advised of the nature of the bar placed on
    the horse.
    b) Except in the case of a bar for a specified period of time, which shall be removed after its expiry, the
    trainer of the barred horse must make application to the RWWA Stewards for the bar to be removed.
    4) All horse barred to trials must complete the trial in a mile rate not slower than the qualifying time for its class.
    5) Where a horse is barred to more than one satisfactory trial, the satisfactory trials must be completed
    consecutively before the bar will be removed.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Just out of interest re Trials 

    If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what 
  • PackedMetalPandaPackedMetalPanda    166 posts
    Markovina said:

    Just out of interest re Trials 


    If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what 



    Just needs to trial and begin safely from the tapes to qualify to race.
  • KTQKTQ    319 posts

    Markovina said:

    Just out of interest re Trials 


    If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what 



    Just needs to trial and begin safely from the tapes to qualify to race.

    it doesn't even need to begin safely. You will just start ODS in any races. You have to trial but the trial means eff all
  • KTQKTQ    319 posts

    GTC......If you combine your earlier post (Point 10) & and the highlighted section below it would seem not...... if only the first trial is recorded & that is an educational trial then in essence it means nothing officially & the second trial is invalid in relation to the ban. By trialling twice it may be possible that you can shoot yourself in the foot ( although with horses it would seem the right thing to do as far as experience & education goes.) 


     
    3.21 REMOVING A BAR - EXCLUDED FROM THE DRAW OR BARRED FROM
    RACING

    The following procedure shall be observed where a trainer wishes to have a horse re-included into the barrier
    draw and or have a bar removed from a horse, which is barred from starting in the particular start format.
    Mobile Barrier Races
    To be re-included in the barrier draw for mobile start races a horse shall;
    a) Complete the required number of consecutive satisfactory race or trial starts from the mobile barrier. For
    a start to be considered satisfactory the horse must have displayed satisfactory behaviour before and
    during the score up and for 100 metres after the start. In addition the horse must have been within one
    metre of its allocated barrier position from the “Candy Pole” to the start point.
    b) When eligible for re-inclusion in the draw the trainer must make application to the RWWA Stewards for
    the ODM to be removed.

    Barred From Racing (and/or excluded from barrier draw)
    The following policy shall apply in relation to Racing Bars (Rule 101, 103 and 134).
    1) From time to time the Stewards impose various racing bars on horses without conducting a formal inquiry.
    This procedure is necessitated by the limited time available between races for dealing with such matters.
    Such decisions are made based on the Stewards observations of the race and in some cases after
    discussions with the driver of the horse concerned.
    When a trainer receives a racing bar notification from the Stewards and disagrees with the Stewards
    decision, he may request the Stewards to review their decision. Any such request must be made as soon as
    possible after the trainer receives the racing bar notification.
    2) A horse barred from racing until it completes a number of satisfactory trials shall not be trialled on the day
    the bar is imposed or trialled twice on the same day, for the purpose of having the bar removed. Only the
    horse’s first trial on any day shall be recorded.
    For a trial to be considered satisfactory the horse must display
    satisfactory behaviour before and during the start and at all stages of the trial irrespective of the reason for
    the bar being imposed.
    3) The Stewards may bar horses from racing for unsoundness, an unsatisfactory performance and
    unsatisfactory behaviour at the barrier or during a race.
    a) At the time a bar is imposed, the trainer of the horse will be advised of the nature of the bar placed on
    the horse.
    b) Except in the case of a bar for a specified period of time, which shall be removed after its expiry, the
    trainer of the barred horse must make application to the RWWA Stewards for the bar to be removed.
    4) All horse barred to trials must complete the trial in a mile rate not slower than the qualifying time for its class.
    5) Where a horse is barred to more than one satisfactory trial, the satisfactory trials must be completed
    consecutively before the bar will be removed.
    The bold is exactly what I'm pissed about. It was IN THE RULES that only the first trial counts!!!  WHY HAS NOTHING BEEN DONE ABOUT MOVING IT TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE FIELD!! Dad rang the stewards to question this and the usual "we'll investigate and get back to you" results in no one getting back to him. 
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    KTQ I can remember one of your team not completing a satisfactory trial and it was accepted in the field and the trainer allowed it to start and it transgressed again. Short memory.

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    KTQ said:

    Markovina said:

    Just out of interest re Trials 


    If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what 



    Just needs to trial and begin safely from the tapes to qualify to race.

    it doesn't even need to begin safely. You will just start ODS in any races. You have to trial but the trial means eff all
    KTQ said:

    Markovina said:

    Just out of interest re Trials 


    If you have a horse which to date has only raced in Mobile starts - if it then enters a standing start race - does it have to do a standing start trial - and pass it to qualify for that standing start race - and if so - is it just 1 trial or 3 trials or what 



    Just needs to trial and begin safely from the tapes to qualify to race.

    it doesn't even need to begin safely. You will just start ODS in any races. You have to trial but the trial means eff all
    not at Byford - we trialed Maestro Bellini in a stand and he began badly - requested he be qualified ODS as we were going to start off back marks and were told you cant qualify ODS
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Correct GTC, have experienced that exact same rule....and fair enough. Had to go back the next week.
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    query in point 10 was whether an educational trial is or isnt an official trial 
    0ne assumes yes and any other trial on the day cant get a horse`s bar lifted
    but
     point 10 suggests an education trial may not be an official trial- if it isnt an official trial and a horse starts in the education trial then in another trial is that trial its first official trial ?

    should/do stewards have the discretionary power to allow a horse to have the second trial counted if the horse MSI in the score up or in the run in the earlier trial ?

    10. A horse wishing to qualify or have a bar removed must
    trial in an official trial and
    not an education trial


  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Educational trials are an official educational trial run under a different format to official race trials & for a different purpose .....which according to point 10 has obviously been deemed as not an acceptable format in terms of consideration  insofar as the lifting of bans is concerned..
    It's clutching at straws to suggest the point of point 10 is anything but unequivocal I would think. 

  • KTQKTQ    319 posts

    KTQ I can remember one of your team not completing a satisfactory trial and it was accepted in the field and the trainer allowed it to start and it transgressed again. Short memory.


    If a horse is not stopped by field selectors to start, why on earth would a trainer say oh no sir, you've mucked up. We want to do another trial please! People are paid to watch trials and either issue yes good you can race or no you have to retrial. That is literally their job. If you go to nom a horse and there are no bars, why on earth would you not nominate? Why would you think Nah I'd rather drive 4hrs and pay $30 because he has previously galloped even though we've made changes and he doesn't gallop at home 
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Stewards were totally incorrect but there should be a duty of care on the trainers part as well.

    Cant_Refuse, aussiebattler likes this post.

  • KTQKTQ    319 posts

    query in point 10 was whether an educational trial is or isnt an official trial 

    0ne assumes yes and any other trial on the day cant get a horse`s bar lifted
    but
     point 10 suggests an education trial may not be an official trial- if it isnt an official trial and a horse starts in the education trial then in another trial is that trial its first official trial ?

    should/do stewards have the discretionary power to allow a horse to have the second trial counted if the horse MSI in the score up or in the run in the earlier trial ?

    10. A horse wishing to qualify or have a bar removed must
    trial in an official trial and
    not an education trial


    Like I said earlier, trials need to mimic race situations. You can't have a mobile jump out practice  on race day. If you gallop in your trial, that's it. You don't get a second trial to try to qualify again
Sign In or Register to comment.