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Harness & Greyhounds

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    If stewards were totally incorrect why wasn’t the horse withdrawn from the race ???
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts
    Stewards error should have been withdrawn.
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Are we talking about Race 1 at GP tonight.
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,829 posts

    Are we talking about Race 1 at GP tonight.

    I was talking about a Pinjarra race some months ago, nothing to do with High Price.
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Ok cheers.
  • KTQKTQ    319 posts

    Stewards were totally incorrect but there should be a duty of care on the trainers part as well.


    what? Like I said, if there are no race bars on a horse, we're going to nominate! The stewards should have scratched him, just like they should have moved High Price to the outside barrier.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts

    Notice Armed Reactor now listed as   L7/ HWOE 22,985 in nominations   if this is  correct it would've been ineligible to  contest the race it  won at g.p on the 15th march tues.

    Thought Getthechange would have given a explanation what took place. What orginally  caught my eye was the fact it  showed  HWOE -- 22,985. after its win  BUT  IS LIFETIME STAKES showed  17,690 how could that be when it raced in a race that had a stipulation Not ELIGIBLE  horses with HWOE OF NO MORE THEN 9,000-------. It was  4,750 to the winner.

    Then i worked out  9,525 was missing from a New  Zealand  Win ---then thats how it jumped from

    8,710 ----- plus add missing 9,525.+ tuesday win  4,750 =   22,985.  Just a honest mistake allround  for the industry sake's. you have to double check when purchasing horses from N.Z.

    More so after the Tricky Ric N.Z. Fiasco.
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    I wasnt aware there had been a stuff up until it was mentioned at track work this morning.
    it would appear HRA and/or RWWA arent loading all the wins and as it isnt he first mistake you would think horses having their first start in Aus would be double checked 
    not that hard and not good enough 

    JayJay likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    In both cases, connections of the imported horse are the winners....kept the prizemoney and no damage to their horses HWOE/level.....all due to an "administrative" error??? The information is freely available about every NZ horse earnings on the HRNZ site. Whenever you look at a potential purchase, out comes the calculator and you determine the horses HWOE (factoring in 2 and 3yo discounts but NOT NZ/AUD conversions as they base HWOE on the NZ dollar figure) before proceeding. It is outrageous that this has occurred ....again....and costly. Amateur hour stuff.

    G-Mac likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,889 posts
    Ash Markham - just missed out in the last race at Melton 

    Gave the horse every possible chance - saved every inch of ground - a swooper just got it in the last few yards unfortunately

    freodockers, Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    My concern that at Harnesweb  after the race. and alteration made which highlighted the error prior to an re inquiry so the system was able to alter to L/7 - HWOE  22,985 with lifetime stakes. 17,690.----which was able to locate & incorporated the missing  9,525.

      But --Australian Harness Racing  (horse search)  in results  Shows-- Armed Reactor   L/6--HWOE  13,460--- But  Same lifetime stakes as Harness Web.  17,690.----  6.00am.  21/03. still showing

    Both have lifetime  stats as                                12 starts --3 wins -- 1 Second---1third.

    But his N.Z. stats are                                         29 starts - 3 wins     3 seconds   -- 4 thirds

    Now the  Horse profile ---Harness .org    shows 31 starts   4 wins  3 seconds -- 4 thirds
    which is correct  showing the two starts in Australia. 7th-- plus the 1st which was is in.question ? then deemed ineligible

    So there is some changes and rearranges pronto as this horse is racing Tues.

    The other Horse Tricky Ric  a 10,700 win was not updated into the National Harness Racing Database. By  NZ.Harness ?or  Aus. harness H.RA.? or has RWWA got anything do with it other then Hcp. Department doing  running checks on imported horses.once they come to our  State.

    But Tricky Ric stats are right now N.Z. 23 Starts  5wins 4 seconds 5  thirds
                                                          Aus 35 Starts 7wins 4 seconds 5 thirds----                                                                                        
                                                          (To be added 18th March stats.)

    A procedure surely must be put in place for imported NZ. horses---- Across Australia .

    Stand corrected three people are sharing the Handicapping Duties?

    Should hand this over to the betting Steward ( Re Imports) His   Fully Versed with Handicapping side of the industry..

    Or Rwwa approach Jay Jay and offer to pay him a fee per horse from N.Z. to see that its correct status.---- Passionate people can notice  oddities in a heart beat.

    No good -We on a path to the game 'Trackside Racing'' which i believe  the new purchasers were adamant the W.A. government  make  amendment's to existing gambling laws.prior to purchase.

    The testing was getting done prior to covid seen it with my own eyes in a TAB..  Somebody knew it would get past in  Parliament..
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts

    My concern that at Harnesweb  after the race. and alteration made which highlighted the error prior to an re inquiry so the system was able to alter to L/7 - HWOE  22,985 with lifetime stakes. 17,690.----which was able to locate & incorporated the missing  9,525.


      But --Australian Harness Racing  (horse search)  in results  Shows-- Armed Reactor   L/6--HWOE  13,460--- But  Same lifetime stakes as Harness Web.  17,690.----  6.00am.  21/03. still showing

    Both have lifetime  stats as                                12 starts --3 wins -- 1 Second---1third.

    But his N.Z. stats are                                         29 starts - 3 wins     3 seconds   -- 4 thirds

    Now the  Horse profile ---Harness .org    shows 31 starts   4 wins  3 seconds -- 4 thirds
    which is correct  showing the two starts in Australia. 7th-- plus the 1st which was is in.question ? then deemed ineligible

    So there is some changes and rearranges pronto as this horse is racing Tues.

    The other Horse Tricky Ric  a 10,700 win was not updated into the National Harness Racing Database. By  NZ.Harness ?or  Aus. harness H.RA.? or has RWWA got anything do with it other then Hcp. Department doing  running checks on imported horses.once they come to our  State.

    But Tricky Ric stats are right now N.Z. 23 Starts  5wins 4 seconds 5  thirds
                                                          Aus 35 Starts 7wins 4 seconds 5 thirds----                                                                                        
                                                          (To be added 18th March stats.)

    A procedure surely must be put in place for imported NZ. horses---- Across Australia .

    Stand corrected three people are sharing the Handicapping Duties?

    Should hand this over to the betting Steward ( Re Imports) His   Fully Versed with Handicapping side of the industry..

    Or Rwwa approach Jay Jay and offer to pay him a fee per horse from N.Z. to see that its correct status.---- Passionate people can notice  oddities in a heart beat.

    No good -We on a path to the game 'Trackside Racing'' which i believe  the new purchasers were adamant the W.A. government  make  amendment's to existing gambling laws.prior to purchase.

    The testing was getting done prior to covid seen it with my own eyes in a TAB..  Somebody knew it would get past in  Parliament..



    It’ll be updated either today or tomorrow I’ve been told, tomorrows race has no bearing on whatever his handicap is as it’s a $L5 race
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    edited March 2022
    Just a few details in form guide will be showin as incorrect. 12 starts 3wins 1second 1 third Mobile stats shows 15 starts 4 wins 1 second  1 third. Just when previews done should be mentioned for punters. 

    Not sure if you were aware that  missing win  Vespa had run second to him in that race. Turn out as good as him you would be rapt..
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Things you remember to a degree ----Ray Sweetman  had horse early seventies thinking Thors Hope had won heap two year old races in Victoria-------- They started   2.38 fronts for two yearolds  and you  would start your three-year old season as maiden on  2.30. Everyone was going crook that it was unfair.

    Jay Jay  do you remember that one.if i got that right.
  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts
    stg = armed reactor
    it would appear whoever loaded armed reactor into the system either wasnt concentrating or didnt know what they were doing
    wrong number of starts - wrong lifetime stake money and $9525 win left off the HWOE figure resulting in an initial HWOE of $8960 (level 4)
    should have been  -  $8960 + $9525 = $18485 (level 6)
    currently showing on horse search  $13460 (level 6)   ($8960 + $4500 for WA win ) = $13460
    Currently showing on WA conditioned racing $22,985 (level 7)    $13460 + $9525 = $22,985

    as a matter of interest figures do vary after a race as the systems are updated at different times
    figures under WA conditioned racing are updated shortly after the race and before the HRA figures are updated
    eg - winner of first race at Bathurst today Van Doren shows $L5 of $5700 on HRA but $L5 of $13,000 on WA conditioned

    Agree that a procedure must be put in place for imported NZ horses - preferably across Australia but even  then a procedure should be put in place in WA for NZ horses having their first start in WA  (probably less than 10 horses a week to double check)

    savethegame likes this post.

  • getthechangegetthechange    310 posts

    Just a few details in form guide will be showin as incorrect. 12 starts 3wins 1second 1 third Mobile stats shows 15 starts 4 wins 1 second  1 third. Just when previews done should be mentioned for punters. 

    Not sure if you were aware that  missing win  Vespa had run second to him in that race. Turn out as good as him you would be rapt..
    or on HRA horse search 31 starts 4-3-4 and  LT$35,335

    savethegame likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts

    Things you remember to a degree ----Ray Sweetman  had horse early seventies thinking Thors Hope had won heap two year old races in Victoria-------- They started   2.38 fronts for two yearolds  and you  would start your three-year old season as maiden on  2.30. Everyone was going crook that it was unfair.


    Jay Jay  do you remember that one.if i got that right.


    Hmm testing the research skills on a Monday STG, I've got data on Thors Hope, handy but I don't think he was really good (or the horse you have in mind??? if that's not being presumptuous). For the record, Thors Hope did all his two year old racing in Victoria winning 4 races for Don Guy ....Nov 8,1971, Kilmore stand over 7 furlongs rating 2.11.2 from the front, Jan 17, 1972 Cranbourne stand 8f and 176 yards rating 2.12, Jan 22 1972, Heat of the Showgrounds Listed Breeders Plate over 8f and 36 yards rating 2.13 and a heat of the Youthful stakes at the Showground on April 8, 1972 rating 2.12.4. All up, 10 two year old starts for 4 win and a 3rd off 36 yards at Shepparton in between wins 3 and 4. Won very little after that. Maybe you are thinking Thor Rise (1972 foal) who won a pile of races and cash ($139k) for Ray mid seventies. 13 metro wins, 11 at GP, 2 at RR and the 1978 Easter Cup over 3200m beating Magic Embrace and Johnny Toledo and 2nd in a Pinjarra Cup. As a 4 year old, he started 23 times for 6 wins, 5 seconds and 2 thirds for $13k in the days when drove very aggressive, boom or bust. As a 5 year old, he went around 24 times for 6 wins, 3 seconds and 2 thirds for $29k. At 6 yo, just the 6 starts for a win in a FFA beating Torchlight and Maid Aachen and $4200 in stakes. I suspect he got his USA visa after that as he disappeared off Australian records but his stakemoney kept growing.
    Finally, Yes, they did start their 3yo season on a 2.30 assessment and a maiden 4 year old would be allocated a 2.28 assessment back when we had handicapping.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Appreciate your efforts, Jay Jay--- both names i knew Rise & Hope-----Don Guy was a top victorian trainer based at Echuca  very good with young horses before my time but was from Kalgoorlie..Wonder if Thor Rise did his early racing in Vic.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    Thor Rise never won as a 2 year old, first win as a 3yo in Vic going 2.8.4.

    savethegame likes this post.

  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Amazing the amount of horse people that came out of Kal.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts

    Amazing the amount of horse people that came out of Kal.




    Great place to learn the craft
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    A great place to learn many, many crafts Rocket!!!!

    Rocket_Reign likes this post.

  • G-MacG-Mac    1,569 posts
    I may sound facetious but that isn't the intention, a serious questions about the HWOE handicapping system. For a horse that has come from NZ and won prize money in NZ dollars, when is the currency conversion applied? In the last 12 months the NZ dollar has traded from a low of $1.03 to a high of $1.08. This might not sound like much but when your handicapping relies on dollars won it could mean the difference between making a field or not depending on which cash rate is applied. Does RWWA have a procedure in place for this?
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    841 posts
    G-Mac said:

    I may sound facetious but that isn't the intention, a serious questions about the HWOE handicapping system. For a horse that has come from NZ and won prize money in NZ dollars, when is the currency conversion applied? In the last 12 months the NZ dollar has traded from a low of $1.03 to a high of $1.08. This might not sound like much but when your handicapping relies on dollars won it could mean the difference between making a field or not depending on which cash rate is applied. Does RWWA have a procedure in place for this?




    Process is it’s just $ for $ no conversion
  • G-MacG-Mac    1,569 posts
    Thanks RR. 
  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    $1.04 quinella race 4 at GP.

    freodockers likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    How much longer can Harness Racing substantiate what is clearly an unsustainable situation?

    freodockers likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,629 posts
    At a quick glance:
    Tuesday Night GP 9 races, potentially 108 starters....74 going around.
    Friday Night GP 9 races, potentially 108 starters, 77 going around (inc 4 from Tuesday).
    Friday Night Narrogin 8 races, potentially 80 starters, 70 going around.
  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    It’s exciting racing though Jay Jay
    Apparently.
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,786 posts
    Getthechange-- All Black Rain if had won tonight he would have been  ineligble  and lost the race after receiving the win from last tuesday which seem it would sent his  HWOE over 12k. as second money was accredited-- not the win
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