WA Pacing Cup

JayJay · November 2023

It would have worked for the owners of Miracle Moose .

You can't have a relegation rule that has selective components to it. My understanding of what proponents want is that if you cause interference in a race...to any horse regardless of its position or how well it is traveling....then the red flag goes up, your out.

At least that is what I think they are proposing. Otherwise, we are back to status quo of selective interpretation by the stewards.

freodockers · November 2023

I just want to know who leads in R6 today at Pinjarra. Have a look at 1,2,3 &4.
Particularly the #2 driver trainer combo.
Unfortunately ADec won’t be there.

Ivorytrunkey86 · November 2023

Common sense would say if the horse is going backwards and there’s contact a suspension to the driver would suffice if it happens in the first 500 like Friday and it costs a horse it’s position and potentially the race you relegate,in saying that I’m not fully across how the rule is adjudicated and generally common sense is not applied.

Markovina · November 2023

The problem with relegation rules - correct me if im wrong because i dont bet on Trotting version - only the pacers

But with the Trotters - Vic had a rule i reckon for at least 40 years - you could get relegated or even disqualified for excessive galloping but that was hardly applied - because horses from a stand could bomb the start by 100 metres and get up and win and nothing happened

But the other part of the rule was did the horse gain ground by galloping - and i thought that rule worked well and was applied properly - so if a horse galloped for the last 5-10 metres and their was a reasonable margin to the next horse - and thus the horse who won the race or was placed - wasnt relegated back a spot or a couple of spots - totally different if it galloped say the last 40 metres - then it was in alot of trouble - could get relegated or disqualied - fair enough

Then 4-5 years ago they changed it i think - you galloped over the finishing line - you could get relegated - i didnt like it

Another bizarre relegation type rule - NSW had for a while about 6-7 years ago - might have got the flick since . Never forget it - a race at Leeton - a horse played up badly - and absolutely TKOD 3 other runners at release - 2 of them ran no where - stewards - read the report - those 2 deemed an unfair start and declared non runners . The other 1 was the horse i backed e/w - it got flattened the worse - put up a huge run and ran 4th - and because it ran in the 1st 4 it couldnt be deemed a non runner - declared a starter and you did your money

AbbysAce · November 2023

Now is the oppuntunity for the stewards to read the riot acts to the drivers.

Let they know 1st corner intererence - say minimum 28 days, double in a group race.

You contact a horse legs at any time in a race - 14 days including 2 friday nights.

The same drivers seem to pushing the boundaries, and I can see why they do it, cos they get a reprimand and when they finally get a suspension the stewards look at how many drives since their last suspension. And give them a reduced sentence because of their good driving record.

Aiden got suspended on sept 8 in the group 2 westbred classic, i think 21 days but got reduced to drive in a group 1, the Golden Slipper, got suspended in that for interference in the home straight, 1st meeting back driving, got 21 days, when you look at it his horse was never going to win.

Then last wednesday race 1, he got 14 days in a 2yo race, I will offer no comment but have a look, thats going into Friday nights race.

Who do you blame? The driver or the stewards for the penalties their delivering?

Markovina · November 2023

AbbysAce said:
Now is the oppuntunity for the stewards to read the riot acts to the drivers.

Let they know 1st corner intererence - say minimum 28 days, double in a group race.
You contact a horse legs at any time in a race - 14 days including 2 friday nights.

The same drivers seem to pushing the boundaries, and I can see why they do it, cos they get a reprimand and when they finally get a suspension the stewards look at how many drives since their last suspension. And give them a reduced sentence because of their good driving record.

Aiden got suspended on sept 8 in the group 2 westbred classic, i think 21 days but got reduced to drive in a group 1, the Golden Slipper, got suspended in that for interference in the home straight, 1st meeting back driving, got 21 days, when you look at it his horse was never going to win.

Then last wednesday race 1, he got 14 days in a 2yo race, I will offer no comment but have a look, thats going into Friday nights race.

Who do you blame? The driver or the stewards for the penalties their delivering?

Not Malcolm Johnston type numbers tho

This is a long time ago - thus testing the memory - but im pretty sure over in Sydney one night - and i was watching the sports news - and the headline story was - Malcolm Johnston turns 50 - he had just copped his 50th suspension from the stewards

savethegame · November 2023

We as punters should be able to see there suspensions numbers along the journey you would be surprised Mal Johnston retired with 56 suspensions. NZ. you can access the jocks numbers Opie Bossom age 43 has had 89 suspensions. Sam Spratt age 38 has 78..

sonny · November 2023

At least it is for trying...

freodockers · November 2023

Markovina said:
My comments re last night - having just watched all the replays

1st of all - wasnt it utterly fantastic to see a decent crowd on course - on the lawned area - pity say the club couldnt give the patrons a small questionaire - ok it is the Pacing Cup - but what could we do to get you back on a semi regular basis - especially when the weather is nice

I am delighted for Ray Williams ( his son Grant was a champion driver by the way ) - i have allways liked Ray - he is a bit similar to Russell Roberts - in that he doesnt tolerate fools - and also Raymond has got that beautiful little abrasive streak in him - which i love in any person

Re the Magnificent Storm - full credit to it - it utterly destroyed that field - it was head and shoulders the best horse in that race . I was critical of its 2 runs in Qld because it was driven superbly both times . However id like to see it go over East again - because it might not have settled in in Qld - it might not have been quite right . So id like it go for an Inters perhaps - because it is a talented horse and easily the best WA Pacer at present

But what Magnificent Storm did in the Pacing Cup - was beat up - severley beat up a mob of 2nd raters . And those opposing horses last night - well compared to the real good ones - the real top liners - like say Preaux Chavilier - then in comparism horses like Diego - Jumping Jack Mac and Loyalist - they are 2nd rate rubbish horses

So full credit to Magnificent Storm and Ray Williams - and as for any whingers re last nights result - all i can say is Winners are Grinners and Losers can please themselves

A Dec on racing radio this morn, best horse has ever felt and went accordingly.
If he he reproduces that effort over east he will beat anything that gets in his way. Don’t know what he ran his first 400 in but it would have to be sub 28 over 2500.
Marko if and it’s a big if, but I hope he goes over east and reproduces against the best because I reckon you will be eating some humble pie.
Long story short if they can keep him in that form I don’t think anything will beat him.

Markovina · November 2023

freodockers said:

Markovina said:
My comments re last night - having just watched all the replays

1st of all - wasnt it utterly fantastic to see a decent crowd on course - on the lawned area - pity say the club couldnt give the patrons a small questionaire - ok it is the Pacing Cup - but what could we do to get you back on a semi regular basis - especially when the weather is nice

I am delighted for Ray Williams ( his son Grant was a champion driver by the way ) - i have allways liked Ray - he is a bit similar to Russell Roberts - in that he doesnt tolerate fools - and also Raymond has got that beautiful little abrasive streak in him - which i love in any person

Re the Magnificent Storm - full credit to it - it utterly destroyed that field - it was head and shoulders the best horse in that race . I was critical of its 2 runs in Qld because it was driven superbly both times . However id like to see it go over East again - because it might not have settled in in Qld - it might not have been quite right . So id like it go for an Inters perhaps - because it is a talented horse and easily the best WA Pacer at present

But what Magnificent Storm did in the Pacing Cup - was beat up - severley beat up a mob of 2nd raters . And those opposing horses last night - well compared to the real good ones - the real top liners - like say Preaux Chavilier - then in comparism horses like Diego - Jumping Jack Mac and Loyalist - they are 2nd rate rubbish horses

So full credit to Magnificent Storm and Ray Williams - and as for any whingers re last nights result - all i can say is Winners are Grinners and Losers can please themselves
A Dec on racing radio this morn, best horse has ever felt and went accordingly.
If he he reproduces that effort over east he will beat anything that gets in his way. Don’t know what he ran his first 400 in but it would have to be sub 28 over 2500.
Marko if and it’s a big if, but I hope he goes over east and reproduces against the best because I reckon you will be eating some humble pie.
Long story short if they can keep him in that form I don’t think anything will beat him.

Why would i be possibly be eating some humble pie ?

Ive sung the praises of Magnificent Storm on its great win - and my post you quoted - i even said id love MS to go over East again - because it might not have been quite right re the Qld trip it undertook

But you want to be carefull because the competition over East will be alot tougher than the mob it was opposed to Frid night . Honestly when i had my early morning paper run in the 1960s on the push-bike i use to see the Milko on the way around - you know he would whistle to his horse - and it would quietly and intelligently move the cart up to the next house for him - and some of that field Frid night would not have been out of place hooked up to the cart - delivering the early morning milk

Chopchop43 · November 2023

Markovina said:

freodockers said:

Markovina said:
My comments re last night - having just watched all the replays

1st of all - wasnt it utterly fantastic to see a decent crowd on course - on the lawned area - pity say the club couldnt give the patrons a small questionaire - ok it is the Pacing Cup - but what could we do to get you back on a semi regular basis - especially when the weather is nice

I am delighted for Ray Williams ( his son Grant was a champion driver by the way ) - i have allways liked Ray - he is a bit similar to Russell Roberts - in that he doesnt tolerate fools - and also Raymond has got that beautiful little abrasive streak in him - which i love in any person

Re the Magnificent Storm - full credit to it - it utterly destroyed that field - it was head and shoulders the best horse in that race . I was critical of its 2 runs in Qld because it was driven superbly both times . However id like to see it go over East again - because it might not have settled in in Qld - it might not have been quite right . So id like it go for an Inters perhaps - because it is a talented horse and easily the best WA Pacer at present

But what Magnificent Storm did in the Pacing Cup - was beat up - severley beat up a mob of 2nd raters . And those opposing horses last night - well compared to the real good ones - the real top liners - like say Preaux Chavilier - then in comparism horses like Diego - Jumping Jack Mac and Loyalist - they are 2nd rate rubbish horses

So full credit to Magnificent Storm and Ray Williams - and as for any whingers re last nights result - all i can say is Winners are Grinners and Losers can please themselves
A Dec on racing radio this morn, best horse has ever felt and went accordingly.
If he he reproduces that effort over east he will beat anything that gets in his way. Don’t know what he ran his first 400 in but it would have to be sub 28 over 2500.
Marko if and it’s a big if, but I hope he goes over east and reproduces against the best because I reckon you will be eating some humble pie.
Long story short if they can keep him in that form I don’t think anything will beat him.
Why would i be possibly be eating some humble pie ?

Ive sung the praises of Magnificent Storm on its great win - and my post you quoted - i even said id love MS to go over East again - because it might not have been quite right re the Qld trip it undertook

But you want to be carefull because the competition over East will be alot tougher than the mob it was opposed to Frid night . Honestly when i had my early morning paper run in the 1960s on the push-bike i use to see the Milko on the way around - you know he would whistle to his horse - and it would quietly and intelligently move the cart up to the next house for him - and some of that field Frid night would not have been out of place hooked up to the cart - delivering the early morning milk

what a dumb comment regarding these horses and your early morning milk run , I guarantee most people who have owned a horse would be stoked to have anything as good as those horses running around, there no lesser quality than the flogged out claimers making up the majority of the free for all's in Victoria of late

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

It was good to see Loyalty maintained his consistent WA form.

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

Should have been Loyalist of course.

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

Adam Hamilton posted on twitter.

Standby …
Seems the WA Pacing Cup drama will take another twist. Connections of runner-up Jumpingjackmac are set to appeal the dismissed protest ruling against winner Magnificent Storm via RWWA integrity.

freodockers · November 2023

Chariotsonfire said:
Adam Hamilton posted on twitter.
Standby …
Seems the WA Pacing Cup drama will take another twist. Connections of runner-up Jumpingjackmac are set to appeal the dismissed protest ruling against winner Magnificent Storm via RWWA integrity.

So so disappointing ,, with the amount this camp has taken out of the industry you would think they would cop it on the chin and move on. Suggests maybe there is more to it than meets the eye.
If I were Mag Storm connections I would fire back and request an inquiry into
1. Early whip use out of the mobile on 2,3.
2. Early driving tactics on the 3.

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

I doubt that Senior endeared himself when he was reported to have told Ray Williams outside the inquiry that Magnificent Storm was a "Dingo" anyway.

Markovina · November 2023

John " The Sherrif " Schreck

"Objection Rules were designed for incidents of horses against horses which can be measured, its tangible you can see it "

12.7 metres - it raced away in the straight from the horse who was directly behind it - it annihilated it . It didnt buckle the other horses wheel or flatten its tyre

Someone copped a 6 week suspension - well if the " The Sherrif" was still in charge - then maybe it would have been handed out for lodging a frivolous protest

sonny · November 2023

The great Kev Newman never protested...

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

Chariotsonfire said:
Adam Hamilton posted on twitter.
Standby …
Seems the WA Pacing Cup drama will take another twist. Connections of runner-up Jumpingjackmac are set to appeal the dismissed protest ruling against winner Magnificent Storm via RWWA integrity.

Glen Moore tweeted this response:

Likelihood of appeal given the statutes of Appeal tribunal reviewing protests is limited .A rehearing can be requested through RWWA perhaps but obviously not independent like Appeals Tribunal makes that difficult.

Chariotsonfire · November 2023

Another tweet from Adam Hamilton:

It’s over. The Jumpingjackmac crew explored it and got legal advice, but appeal avenues limited and complex.
Results stands.
Move on.

freodockers · November 2023

Thanks Chariots

Offthebit · November 2023

Snr did an interview on SEN this morning and spoke extremely well.
Said he’s happy to let sleeping dogs lie which is very noble of him given the lack of respect shown to his horse by de campo.
Also good to hear de campo very remorseful of his actions on Monday
Hopefully all parties can move on

savethegame · November 2023

Wouldn't have a clue how many protests have finished up in appeal to tribunal or you just appealed to the stewards.in times gone bye. Remember being told a story in seventies regards protest appeal after Sheer Express was awarded protest, mayhave been. 3rd and 2nd Against the winner Tavis.Name Leo Woods was mentioned as representing the driver of Tavis (johnson) One point was raised in relation to him cutting down across. the tyres marks of the mobile abruptly . Woods said so you actually expected him to follow the mobile to the top of track.

JayJay · November 2023

Thread cleanser.....the legendary Laurie Robinson, winner of the Pacing Cup on Hy Craft in 1965, Pure Steel's farrier, trainer, driver, steward, head of the School, winner of just about every major race on the calendar asprimarily a free lance driver, and........unbeknown to him at the time.....a major funder of JayJay's tortuous 4 year journey of poverty as a University Student....celebrates his amazing 94th Birthday today.

Living proof that decades of long hot days at the forge and anvil, curing all sorts of gait issues on recalcitrant pacers, never hurt anyone. Happy Birthday LJR, truly a Hall of Fame Legend.

G'day Punter!

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