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  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    160 posts
    Markovina said:

    FRK not sure what legacy he left harness racing

    IMO outside personal achievements.---, Very little was a non conformist refused to alter his whip action, like to know how many times he was fined plus warnings when most drivers were trying to change -- anti drug testing Wanted 10 drivers allowed to drive in city eight runners per race. Anti S Starts, had said when sprint lane was first introduced in Kalgoorlie he would find it hard not to cut the person off if he looked like losing a big race,worry about it in Stewards room later
    Sorry mate - but that is utter tripe re Fred K , and you are quite fortunate that you posted that rubbish and not me 

    Because if i had posted that - Jay Jay would have hit me with a ton of bricks , but this forum i know how it works , the little purple circle group , you know VK  - Gilga , Jay Jay , any of them can post utter shiit , and they wont be criticised under any circumstances by their little group - they havent got the guts to do it

    But Fred K - i went to GP every week and all country meetings , how i would describe Fred as a driver , he was a Gentleman , he respected other peoples horses , he wasnt into the push and shove at all . And that ridiculous unsafe push out rule back then was 10 times worse , because a horse could lead the 3 wide train at the bell and you could still push out , so it ended up 4-5 wide- but after a fight/contest  , it was like dodgem cars 

    A modern day driver who reminds me very much of Fred - is Grant Dixon of QLD - just like Fred he has quality horses , but he is not into the push and shove , he doesnt drive horses like his life is riding on it , if they are good enough they win , which is often , and that is exactly how Fred drove



    yea because jayjay actually uses numbers and facts people respect numbers and facts, they don't respect absolute biased nonsense

    VillageKid likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    86 posts
    Very comical
  • sonnysonny    1,064 posts
    Hi JJ, Have you seen the tote pools on the NSW tab.. for w.a trots..I dont know where the figures are kept for fixed odds and most are not privy to that info..
  • sonnysonny    1,064 posts
    Marko, I enjoyed your posts when you stuck to selections and your thoughts about tracks,drivers,trainers etc...  But to call out various posters with no much backup that is pretty low...Please dont get into a huff but stick to your previously mentioned topics which are quite entertaining.. Stick to what you best do,,,,
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,798 posts
    edited January 29
    Markovina said:

    FRK not sure what legacy he left harness racing

    IMO outside personal achievements.---, Very little was a non conformist refused to alter his whip action, like to know how many times he was fined plus warnings when most drivers were trying to change -- anti drug testing Wanted 10 drivers allowed to drive in city eight runners per race. Anti S Starts, had said when sprint lane was first introduced in Kalgoorlie he would find it hard not to cut the person off if he looked like losing a big race,worry about it in Stewards room later
    Sorry mate - but that is utter tripe re Fred K ,
    Marko F R K was great trainer& brilliant driver. was the master of the breeze gee reckon huge percentage of his winners came from that position .Him and pushing out is not necessary from the breeze .
    Far as country success you didn't see much in 87/88. He drove 136 metro winners in a total of 146 wins . Fact Thought he played the leading trainers on a break with Northerly won 2400m Caulfield Cup then back to Cox plate 2030m seven later when he galloped him midweek they were saying you can't do that his cooked him, A very good friend was in trainers box he said how they carried on ,he hoped the horse would win which he did.‐
    There was a period he would fly to S.A and drive for Ross Sugars Saturday nights -----plus a lot his breeze horses came from S A. as Qualifying Stakes 2.25 that finished up on tight Assements going solo no facts Rite, Saddle Tramp ,Riteson,. My response was regarding W.R. comment Marko you starting to behave like Haystacks Calhoun at Perry Lakes wanting to take 10 on at once. One night remember Dennis Cometti saying thats Kersley 100th winner for the sea son handshake from the vanquished forgotten who ran second the horse was Yankee Doodle Dandy
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,899 posts
    You had a go at an all time great - and i responded accordingly 

    It is a harness racing forum , people are allowed to give their views 

    Plenty get stuck into me , i couldnt careless - water on a ducks back 
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,798 posts
    Have no problem with you, Fred wouldn't do as he was told stop dropping your whip from the heavans, the head Steward was Des Jones he had run-ins with that issue,.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    Markovina said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Betonme said:



    No handicap no turnover no future, Northam Cup tonight great handicap race.

    It terms of a spectacle, always feel that the Fremantle cup and AG Hunter Cup, lost a bit of sparkle when they went to mobiles.

    See this is the problem with alot of posters - they want a perfect world , a make believe world , and of course they can do no wrong and are allways right - and the administrators   who have to make very hard and important  decisions well they are are fair game 

    The indisputable facts about the AG Hunter Cup when it was last run as a standing start it was a debacle , a farce , a disgrace 

    To put a WA slant on it , imagine Im The Mighty Quinn misses the kick by 150 metres , another couple rear at the start , both Preaux Chevalier and and Pure Steel are knocked over and are 100 metres awway . 5-6 were out of business after the start

    They are the facts , so the administrators of Vic Harness Racing are under huge pressure , their number one race on the calendar and it is totally wrecked 

    After that shocking display , they made the decision, we cant risk it in future , thus we are switching it to a mobile , and i think given all the facts/circumsatances that was an excellent decision 

    FRK - great horseman and all the rest of it , yes the key board warriors will say he wanted 9 accross a single row front , but the 1st thing he said about 30 years publicly - it made the papers etc , get rid of those horrible standing starts , they are a disaster for Trotting 

    You look at Bussleton it fills a void with the holiday makers etc so all good , but any reasonable punter - and ive put fair $ amounts on Pacers , but never with Standing Starts . If you want to win gambling you have to reduce the variables as much as possible , and standing starts you dont know what is going to happen , eg That AG Hunter Cup total debacle 

    But the dreamers in their make believe world they love Standing Starts , maybe they can $10 e/w on something because thats all they should be risking





    The $10EW punter is the one that those in charge are trying to lure back, the ones who are by and large doing it for an entertainment basis. That's what these ideas like the 1100m races at Pinj are about, somehow they see people punting on dogs and think punters want it over quickly but i would suggests they more just want a contest.

    You get 5000 punters across the pubs and clubs of Australia having 10ew on your product of an afternoon and suddenly you have a decent hold.
    "You get 5000 punters in pubs and clubs having $10 e/w and suddenly you have a decent hold " 

    What a load of theoretical nonsense , go and join Paulines ratbag party , you can be their Treasury spokeman, what did Pauline say - we will have a 2% flat tax rate for everyone - and that will fund  hospitals , schools  roads and bridges , the same stupid logic 

    You need big punters , who bet serious money on your product - end of debate 

    I can understand the frustration of posters like Frog - who want a couple of stands at GP - so at least you can have a bet , because the racing is utter one dimensional shiit on that 800 metre goat track at GP ,  but 2 wrongs dont make a right 

    I heard Mick Malthouse a couple of years back - each Sat morning he was a presenter  for a couple of years on ABC Sat sportstalk show , and he said when he was coaching Coll - the president would come to him later in the week and say , Mick we dont care what utter shiit style we play, we dont care how horrible it is to view/watch , all  we are interested in Mick is the win - the 4 pts 

    And thats exactly the problem on that utter shocking 800 metres GP track , youve got trainers like Hally and Rocket , they couldnt care less how utter shiit , one dimensional total rubbish the racing is at GP , all they are interested in , is winning races , and they are winning plenty of them





    There is no debate. Absolutely all codes need there larger punters. But that's not who they are looking to win back.

    RWWA rep on radio mid Jan talking about how the social punter was the one they had lost and were looking to appeal to.

    Tabtouch being government owned defenitley wouldnt be interested in any large successful punters as that would put a hole in their bottom line not a plus.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    A bit of boring detail.

    There are over 4000 tabs/betting outlets across Australia.

    You get just one recreational punter in each of those betting 10EW on your product theres an $80K boost to your bottom line.

    Let alone those at home with sky on a Friday or Sat evening.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,899 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Betonme said:



    No handicap no turnover no future, Northam Cup tonight great handicap race.

    It terms of a spectacle, always feel that the Fremantle cup and AG Hunter Cup, lost a bit of sparkle when they went to mobiles.

    See this is the problem with alot of posters - they want a perfect world , a make believe world , and of course they can do no wrong and are allways right - and the administrators   who have to make very hard and important  decisions well they are are fair game 

    The indisputable facts about the AG Hunter Cup when it was last run as a standing start it was a debacle , a farce , a disgrace 

    To put a WA slant on it , imagine Im The Mighty Quinn misses the kick by 150 metres , another couple rear at the start , both Preaux Chevalier and and Pure Steel are knocked over and are 100 metres awway . 5-6 were out of business after the start

    They are the facts , so the administrators of Vic Harness Racing are under huge pressure , their number one race on the calendar and it is totally wrecked 

    After that shocking display , they made the decision, we cant risk it in future , thus we are switching it to a mobile , and i think given all the facts/circumsatances that was an excellent decision 

    FRK - great horseman and all the rest of it , yes the key board warriors will say he wanted 9 accross a single row front , but the 1st thing he said about 30 years publicly - it made the papers etc , get rid of those horrible standing starts , they are a disaster for Trotting 

    You look at Bussleton it fills a void with the holiday makers etc so all good , but any reasonable punter - and ive put fair $ amounts on Pacers , but never with Standing Starts . If you want to win gambling you have to reduce the variables as much as possible , and standing starts you dont know what is going to happen , eg That AG Hunter Cup total debacle 

    But the dreamers in their make believe world they love Standing Starts , maybe they can $10 e/w on something because thats all they should be risking





    The $10EW punter is the one that those in charge are trying to lure back, the ones who are by and large doing it for an entertainment basis. That's what these ideas like the 1100m races at Pinj are about, somehow they see people punting on dogs and think punters want it over quickly but i would suggests they more just want a contest.

    You get 5000 punters across the pubs and clubs of Australia having 10ew on your product of an afternoon and suddenly you have a decent hold.
    "You get 5000 punters in pubs and clubs having $10 e/w and suddenly you have a decent hold " 

    What a load of theoretical nonsense , go and join Paulines ratbag party , you can be their Treasury spokeman, what did Pauline say - we will have a 2% flat tax rate for everyone - and that will fund  hospitals , schools  roads and bridges , the same stupid logic 

    You need big punters , who bet serious money on your product - end of debate 

    I can understand the frustration of posters like Frog - who want a couple of stands at GP - so at least you can have a bet , because the racing is utter one dimensional shiit on that 800 metre goat track at GP ,  but 2 wrongs dont make a right 

    I heard Mick Malthouse a couple of years back - each Sat morning he was a presenter  for a couple of years on ABC Sat sportstalk show , and he said when he was coaching Coll - the president would come to him later in the week and say , Mick we dont care what utter shiit style we play, we dont care how horrible it is to view/watch , all  we are interested in Mick is the win - the 4 pts 

    And thats exactly the problem on that utter shocking 800 metres GP track , youve got trainers like Hally and Rocket , they couldnt care less how utter shiit , one dimensional total rubbish the racing is at GP , all they are interested in , is winning races , and they are winning plenty of them





    There is no debate. Absolutely all codes need there larger punters. But that's not who they are looking to win back.

    RWWA rep on radio mid Jan talking about how the social punter was the one they had lost and were looking to appeal to.

    Tabtouch being government owned defenitley wouldnt be interested in any large successful punters as that would put a hole in their bottom line not a plus.
    I will tell you something Gilga quite seriously , the biggest problem with  Trotting - and why the pools are minnows compared to the gallops and  will allways will be that way  the historical " Red Hots " tag - so you can get new young punters 2nd or 3rd generation , and they have been told by their parents or grandparents , dont go near the Red Hots , its corrupt , its full of cheats and it stinks - now we all know at today that is utter rubbish , and anyone with even half a clue knows its alot easier to win on the punt re harness racing than the gallops , mainly because of alot less variables 

    But back in the day unfortunately Trotting definitely deserved the Red Hots tag , i will give you a couple of examples 

    Early 80s at HP - there was court judge , i think it was judge Goran , maybe a Supreme court judge , a harness racing fanatic , and he got appointed Chairman of NSW Harness Racing or whatever - 1st thing he did was call an emergency meeting with the leading 15-20 trainers and drivers , summoned into a room , and he told them if he got any inkling that there was organised crime in NSW Trotting  - he would have no hesitation into calling a Royal Commission into Trotting , he said at that point organised crime walked out the door of NSW Harness Racing 

    Another example - and i knew one of the drivers , mid 80s - Moonee Valley Trots , opening race , every driver was summoned to the stewards room , they were told they had very good mail that this race had been rigged , and thus as a result we are going to be watching you very carefully 

    Way back i use to frequent the Swanbourne TAB  a fair bit , there was a father and 2 sons who ran it , so id be talking to the 2 sons a fair bit , one was a punter , because i bumped into him at GP when Jodies Babe won the inter dom . The other son did nights and i would be betting their on the Trots , and after a while he said to me , i can see what you are doing here  re Trotting and winning on the punt , he said - i thought Trotting was corrupt and full cheats and thus never touched it 

    That image Gilga is the biggest problem facing Trotting in Aust , they tell their kids - and then their kids , dont touch the Red Hots . Where as in other countries , like NZ , Trotting has nearly got the call over the gallops
  • jumjum    3,516 posts
    Markovina said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Betonme said:
    But back in the day unfortunately Trotting definitely deserved the Red Hots tag , i will give you a couple of examples 

    David Hercules ?????   
    >-)
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,899 posts
    jum said:

    Markovina said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Betonme said:
    But back in the day unfortunately Trotting definitely deserved the Red Hots tag , i will give you a couple of examples 

    David Hercules ?????   
    >-)
    That has been mentioned by a few posters over the journey

    Can you tell  me what race it was - and what year - because i wouldnt mind watching a replay of it
  • jumjum    3,516 posts
    2015 Pacing cup.
    Look into it and the irony on the night, if you look at the winner of race straight after the Cup and who drove the winner.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,899 posts
    jum said:

    2015 Pacing cup.

    Look into it and the irony on the night, if you look at the winner of race straight after the Cup and who drove the winner.
    Thanks for that - very interesting race - well worth a watch - anyone else wants  to 16/1/2015 - on the AHR -  on the results page 

    Torretto beaten 85 metres  

    DH - sensational run 2nd -  
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    Number of races and numbers of horse racing GP Metro stats:

    Nov 24 10 races  96 horses
    Dec 1    9 races   94 horses
    Dec 8    8 races   67 horses
    Dec 15  9 races   83 horses
    Dec 22  10 races 84 horses
    Dec 29   8 races  79 horses
    Jan 5     8 races   69 horses
    Jan 12   8 races   63 horses
    Jan 19  10 races  91 horses
    Jan 26   9 races   71 horses
    Feb  2   10 races  96 horses

    Divided stakes as per this Friday night is not the long term answer, clearly, but they weren't programmed for that reason. A circuit breaker was required to cease the low point 63 horses racing for optimum stakes/minimal turnover nonsense which, if the programming had been "dynamic, flexible and attuned to the racing population" could have been avoided.The 8 race scenario with 5 and 6 runners in the last 4 races paying only 1/2 over the summer Period was a terrible look, never mind the stakes payout which could have been better applied to other sections of the Industry.
     
    The weekly "FFA handout" of $31,000 to 4 or 5 or 6  Free For All horses was totally unsustainable. Was it a national secret that many fast class horses were spelling after the Cup to get ready for April, and that the ranks were desperately thin?

    Chopchop43, Betonme, LightningJake likes this post.

  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,841 posts
    edited January 31
    Although I am not a fan we seem to agree that there is a place for handicapped stands.

    Perhaps the participants are not so sure with only seven acceptors for the HWOE $40,000 race on Friday. Trainers and owners have always been very reluctant to start off handicpas greater than 20m and in this case 10m.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    edited January 31
    This week, it is the L10/11 stand as opposed to the L8/9 stand, and a few of the "regulars" like old mate Feeling Aces, are in other races like the FFA etc.....And Watching Our Coin did win the Northam Cup off 30m, so maybe a few avoided him. I thought the Northam Cup was an outstanding example of a good stand race, unpredictable, good viewing and a cracking finish with a wide betting market. So yes, I am a big fan of stands, I think they have their place, at all tracks.

    The stands have been holding up pretty well numbers wise, hopefully I'll have a couple more to nominate shortly once they reach the required level. I think it maybe worth having a throw at the stumps with Mikipelo but he has to win another race to be guaranteed a start. I actually think the current mix for stands is pretty good and provides good racing.

    It may have been a good idea to communicate the changes that were made to programming a little more widely but I think all would agree something had to change.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,899 posts
    Doing the form for Geel harness tonight - Race 3 is quite interesting - restricted to horses with nil lifetime wins 

    These are the NR Ratings for that field 4 have got 50   - 2 have got 49 and 1 each of 48/47/43 

    A few 1st starters - they have all got 50 - seems a very high rating 

    Question - under the WA Model - a horse who hasnt had a start - what rating does it have 


  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    843 posts
    Markovina said:

    Doing the form for Geel harness tonight - Race 3 is quite interesting - restricted to horses with nil lifetime wins 


    These are the NR Ratings for that field 4 have got 50   - 2 have got 49 and 1 each of 48/47/43 

    A few 1st starters - they have all got 50 - seems a very high rating 

    Question - under the WA Model - a horse who hasnt had a start - what rating does it have 





    0$ Hwoe level 1

    Markovina likes this post.

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