G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

0 Members & 6 Non Members

Comments worth a post but not a thread of their own

Harness & Greyhounds

Comments

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    sonny said:

    Hi Gilga, Your 100 chance may have been in the finish if it steps.. I took 19 plc.. I am the mok....





    Was that in betfair??

    We needed them to get the race off the first time around, wasnt ready to go after they made them circle around a few more times.

    Speaking of Mok, i reckon i was on Cavalry Call every run for ablut 2 months there, step away and he knocks me off!
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,898 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    Markovina said:

    Upcoming race at Bathurst - $4 Don Boston - use to be a flying machine at its peak - 46 wins and basically 400k in stake- so no slouch 


    But it is a 15 year old - is there any age limit for pacers - whats the rule 



    I think each state has their own rules
    It must be 14 years in Victoria 

    Doing the form watching replays a horse called Baccarat - its last start - one of Ben Yoles - and the caller said $7 into $1.80 and duly saluted - about 1.56 mile rate - tidy rate - and the caller said they have to relucantly retire it - they dont want  to -  thats its last run - because of the rules 
  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,841 posts
    Tabtouch bonus superpicks on the lightning lap races today.

    If I was cynical it may be a ploy to increase turnover.

    Betonme, Arapaho, Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,898 posts
    Just a question , ones closer to the scene might know the answer 

    But Justin Prentice , what would he  be mid 30s why doesnt he drive alot more of his horses - he has the occasional drive , you know he even puts  Grandpa Lewis on who would be pushing 70 

    But i allways rated Justin , i thought he was an excellent driver , drove  a Derby winner or a big race winner for Hall going back a bit 

    It is a bit like Greg Harper , i allways thought he was a very good driver  , but he wanted to replace himself and put others on like FRK . And G D Harper was one of the very few who had the wood on Trevor Warwick in a few big races 
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    Not my jurisdiction but happened to cetch a horse that I think might be one out of the box the other day.

    Albion Park R5 No12 Fact Finder. Interestingly $1.40, would have thought it could be a lot shorter.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    edited January 30
    Gilgamesh said:

    Not my jurisdiction but happened to cetch a horse that I think might be one out of the box the other day.

    Albion Park R5 No12 Fact Finder. Interestingly $1.40, would have thought it could be a lot shorter.




    Could have won by half a lap if he went for it earlier.

    No idea what it beat but continue to watch.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    From a serious, serious family Gil, I would hazard a guess,Kevin Seymour's Solid Earth/Egmont Park's best maternal line (Girl From Ipanema/Goldrush Girl/Lady Antrim.) Literally, dozens of quality horses spanning back 4 and 5 generations. Is a brother to Future Assured who won a heat of the recent Inters at Albion Park. $1.50 was good shopping.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    Doesnt look an overly big horse but has the big asset of being bloody fast!
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,898 posts
    edited January 30
    Gilgamesh said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Not my jurisdiction but happened to cetch a horse that I think might be one out of the box the other day.

    Albion Park R5 No12 Fact Finder. Interestingly $1.40, would have thought it could be a lot shorter.




    Could have won by half a lap if he went for it earlier.

    No idea what it beat but continue to watch.
    Not to take the sheen and gloss off it - but past 2 starts its beaten absolute rubbish 

    I look at the mile rates 1.57 for 2100 at AP is borderline ok - like 1.58 is slowish - like you wouldnt be paying much for a horse if 1.58 was its quickest rate at AP for 2100 

    For that trip re doing the form you like to see 1.56 or under - however that horses last qtr was 27.9 so that is good 
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    Markovina said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Not my jurisdiction but happened to cetch a horse that I think might be one out of the box the other day.

    Albion Park R5 No12 Fact Finder. Interestingly $1.40, would have thought it could be a lot shorter.




    Could have won by half a lap if he went for it earlier.

    No idea what it beat but continue to watch.
    Not to take the sheen and gloss off it - but past 2 starts its beaten absolute rubbish 

    I look at the mile rates 1.57 for 2100 at AP is borderline ok - like 1.58 is slowish - like you wouldnt be paying much for a horse if 1.58 was its quickest rate at AP for 2100 

    For that trip re doing the form you like to see 1.56 or under - however that horses last qtr was 27.9 so that is good 


    Yes no quick overall time but not its own doing obviously, being that it sat up and only joined in the last 400m.

    Last start 55.2 home from the breeze was what caught the eye but again that was below a 50 rating race, so beating nothing just like how its going. Put it in a faster run race and the faster mile rate will take care of itself. I guess im just condition if a horse won like that here and lined up in basically the same grade a week layer it would be $1.04.

    This is one of the really hard things about trying to get a gauge on how good horses are over here in The West at the moment, better grade of horses we get so many slow lead times and they fly home it is hard to work out are they going to keep winning or can they just fly home on their own terms.

    Horses like Ten To The Dozen and Thenucamealong yesterday, they probably only ran top speed for 250m so ofcourse they got home quick.

    Markovina likes this post.

  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    The Hamilton horse Valhalla Miss was a great run sat night and looks to have hit a really winnable race tonight R2. One at odds R6 Frankie J Holden improved the other day and I think runs on well from 3back the fence.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,898 posts
    I want to make a comment re track sizes - M Radley and RWWA should be all over this fact - but id give you long odds that they are aware of it

    Race 5 at Redcliffe today the fast class , Vic Frost had the odds on fave - it is well worth a watch that race , yes i had a tiny bet on the winner at the 12s - but that was a miracle win , and ive seen that time and time again at Redcliffe , and ive been on the losing end of it , the one leading looks home but it is not

    So i looked up the Track sizes GP is 804.5 - Redcliffe is 833 , but here is the big difference GP home straight is 143 metres and Redcliffes is 170 

    Thus is there anyway  without needing to spend big bundles of money can the GP home straight be increased by 25-30 metres using Redcliife as your precedent 

    Over the years at GP ive seen so many weak as pisss favourites/leaders and winners , they cling on and win by half a metre or less , if the home straight was 27 metres longer , theyd run 3rd or 4th - you would get totally different results , and in my opinion the racing would be so much better and you wouldnt need to spend a fortune to do it
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    160 posts
    Markovina said:

    I want to make a comment re track sizes - M Radley and RWWA should be all over this fact - but id give you long odds that they are aware of it


    Race 5 at Redcliffe today the fast class , Vic Frost had the odds on fave - it is well worth a watch that race , yes i had a tiny bet on the winner at the 12s - but that was a miracle win , and ive seen that time and time again at Redcliffe , and ive been on the losing end of it , the one leading looks home but it is not

    So i looked up the Track sizes GP is 804.5 - Redcliffe is 833 , but here is the big difference GP home straight is 143 metres and Redcliffes is 170 

    Thus is there anyway  without needing to spend big bundles of money can the GP home straight be increased by 25-30 metres using Redcliife as your precedent 

    Over the years at GP ive seen so many weak as pisss favourites/leaders and winners , they cling on and win by half a metre or less , if the home straight was 27 metres longer , theyd run 3rd or 4th - you would get totally different results , and in my opinion the racing would be so much better and you wouldnt need to spend a fortune to do it

    leader just won't let them out til half way up the straight rather than the corner I dunno if 25-30 metres would make a giant difference imo
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,898 posts

    Markovina said:

    I want to make a comment re track sizes - M Radley and RWWA should be all over this fact - but id give you long odds that they are aware of it


    Race 5 at Redcliffe today the fast class , Vic Frost had the odds on fave - it is well worth a watch that race , yes i had a tiny bet on the winner at the 12s - but that was a miracle win , and ive seen that time and time again at Redcliffe , and ive been on the losing end of it , the one leading looks home but it is not

    So i looked up the Track sizes GP is 804.5 - Redcliffe is 833 , but here is the big difference GP home straight is 143 metres and Redcliffes is 170 

    Thus is there anyway  without needing to spend big bundles of money can the GP home straight be increased by 25-30 metres using Redcliife as your precedent 

    Over the years at GP ive seen so many weak as pisss favourites/leaders and winners , they cling on and win by half a metre or less , if the home straight was 27 metres longer , theyd run 3rd or 4th - you would get totally different results , and in my opinion the racing would be so much better and you wouldnt need to spend a fortune to do it

    leader just won't let them out til half way up the straight rather than the corner I dunno if 25-30 metres would make a giant difference imo
    I take your point

    But about 40 years ago they did increase the track size from 725 approx to 800 , and that was a good improvement 

    So maybe they do that again - should be able to squeeze it in 

    Increase the circumstance of the track by say 70-80 metres with the home straight 25-30 metres longer , i think that would be another good improvement - and  youd still have 20 million to spend somewhere else 

    But to spend $27 million - keeping the track at 800 metres - knocking over some existing grandstands and building another new grandstand when hardly anyone goes - i cant see any logic in that 


    savethegame, jum likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,798 posts
    edited February 1
    Jay Jay . Borrowed copy of Peter Sweeney book re- Mount Eden no mention of trial prior M.Mile, The trusty Kalgoorlie Miner stated were he ran last in a trial four days prior with two other pacers NZenders Manaroa and Royal Ascot. he was two lengths in front at  400  ,the inside  evidently was very loose underfoot Royal Ascot was a three year old who won the trial beating manaroa,


     Mentions Mount  Eden led  on rail throughout.  So the 2metre × 1metre Photo which shows Mount  Eden   outside the leader in  four horse trial is not of that particular  trial  but have been told the track is H.P.  The trial  on the Tuesday  was definitely  correct  as Kevin Newman was quoted  on the day before M M. that he was the best horse ever seen, forget  about the trial . Newman  drove Halwes when he won MM. set race record ---he said if Miles can get him around first corner he will  break Halwes record,which he went very close.
  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    STG, I am currently burrowing down numerous other rabbit holes at the moment, sorting literally 100's and 100's of old WA race books, mainly GP but other now defunct tracks as well ....from as far back as 1943 up to the 1990's. Learn something from every book, including dispelling some pre conceived ideas and busting  some old myths. Linking the race books, complete with results and old betting tickets and records of transactions with my now complete collection of year books is very illuminating. As a general comment, a lot of capable horses changed trainers very frequently in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Some forced by circumstances in the stewards room. None of this stay of proceedings, appeal stuff in those days. Seems 4 metro meets the minimum for interference and in some cases, suspended in race 1, not allowed to drive for the rest of the meeting. And if you got done twice, no concurrent penalties, rack and stack em. TBW got two weeks early in a meeting, then 6 for another breach, take 8 weeks off was the ruling.

    Back to The Mount, I can't imagine why Sweeney never included the trial in his book. I am always amused that the accepted commentary from the Miracle Mile has the horse losing 30 metres at the start, much closer to 50m from the vision before Jungle Jack got him pacing. After that, it was just extraordinary. Never, and won't ever, see anything like that again in such high class company.

    savethegame, jum, LightningJake likes this post.

  • jumjum    3,516 posts
    Markovina said:

    Markovina said:







    But to spend $27 million - keeping the track at 800 metres - knocking over some existing grandstands and building another new grandstand when hardly anyone goes - i cant see any logic in that 


    As some on here have said numerous times. the grandstands are full of people enjoying the Beau Rivage and steelos. When the grass looks like there is no one there
    If that's the case, will they cover that in the new $27 million dollar rebuild. 
    I for one, only go up there for the view and food. Put me on a ground level and I aint paying or going at all to GP

    savethegame likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    86 posts
    Morning all, As I’ve said before it’s very sad what’s been allowed to happen to GP in any business the management would be given the don’t come Monday and the committee words cannot describe what should happen to them.
  • ArapahoArapaho    223 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    Have to go again Crack A Tinny tonight, not the same price but struggle to find a weaker race and very positive driver engagement.

    Giga,
    Seeing he has left you a bit dry lately was wondering did you Cracka Tinny last night.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    Arapaho said:

    Gilgamesh said:

    Have to go again Crack A Tinny tonight, not the same price but struggle to find a weaker race and very positive driver engagement.

    Giga,
    Seeing he has left you a bit dry lately was wondering did you Cracka Tinny last night.



    Cracka Tinny and Franie J Holden both won without me last night sadly.

    Still gave the Tinny a lettle rev up when you could see him emerging from the rails, deserved that win.

    Arapaho likes this post.

  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    564 posts
    How is having a $300,000 trot race that you dont even know the field until 2 hours before the start good for turnover?


  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    Yes, it's a one off but what a race for the trotters, magnificent spectacle, a battle for the ages.

    The Melton racing last night was of a very high standard, come from behind, close finishes and great race calling from Dan Mielecki, clear and accurate pronunciation.
     
    Good crowd present and involved which added to the product. Excellent viewing.

    sonny, LightningJake likes this post.

  • sonnysonny    1,064 posts
    I also enjoyed Bunbury last night ..Not my odds to bet though ..
  • savethegamesavethegame    2,798 posts
    What a quick thinking winning move from Nathan Jack at the barrier draw three barriers left he could've picked 6 , 7, 10, over 1720m, he in a split second choose gate 10 three off the back, his thought process was he removed the possibility Just believe to get a three deep cart up on his back. as Just believe finished up in gate 7. Still was herculean Just Believe .

    JayJay likes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,664 posts
    Purdon on Don't Stop Dreaming just after turning into the lane (3 min 32 sec)......he went out of his gear momentarily, was gone for all money but he picked him up off the deck and came again.  Great horsemanship on a very good horse.
  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,732 posts
    Will done Panda on the all the way win today. Bit of success from forum owners of late.
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,898 posts
    Re the Standing starts - i have made my view clear on them 

    Apart from disliking them - what me pissses me off totally is different states have these imbecile methods of starting them - Vic and SA have tried circling them on the infield - it is real hit and miss stufff - and you see horses  just  stand their and then turn and pole axe other runners 

    Years back the starter use to yell out - stand them up - and that meant  its a start 

    Waiting for race 7 at AP because i had a bet in it  - I watched the start of the 1st 3 races at AP today - and they were all standing start Trotting gait races 

    2 things i noticed - 1 was by accident `- because there were quite a few runners either ODS or RODS - but there were some nice gaps between those horses , and as a result every horse stepped in those 3 races - so maybe even if there isnt ods horses -  have some nice  gaps between them - because then the horses are nice and relaxed and there is a good chance they will step - and every Trotter in those 3 races stepped today 

    Race 3 at AP (the replay on the AHR site - its got the best angle ) that is a classic - magnificent standing start - the starter would get 100 out of 100 - none of this hillbilly State method nonsense - circling or whatever - he instead he held them their in a nice line and then released them

    If Trotting wasnt so amateurish and really so lazy - the video of race 3 at AP today would be sent to every starter around Aust - and told thats how  you start Pacers and Trotters in standing start races
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    160 posts
    Markovina said:

    Re the Standing starts - i have made my view clear on them 


    Apart from disliking them - what me pissses me off totally is different states have these imbecile methods of starting them - Vic and SA have tried circling them on the infield - it is real hit and miss stufff - and you see horses  just  stand their and then turn and pole axe other runners 

    Years back the starter use to yell out - stand them up - and that meant  its a start 

    Waiting for race 7 at AP because i had a bet in it  - I watched the start of the 1st 3 races at AP today - and they were all standing start Trotting gait races 

    2 things i noticed - 1 was by accident `- because there were quite a few runners either ODS or RODS - but there were some nice gaps between those horses , and as a result every horse stepped in those 3 races - so maybe even if there isnt ods horses -  have some nice  gaps between them - because then the horses are nice and relaxed and there is a good chance they will step - and every Trotter in those 3 races stepped today 

    Race 3 at AP (the replay on the AHR site - its got the best angle ) that is a classic - magnificent standing start - the starter would get 100 out of 100 - none of this hillbilly State method nonsense - circling or whatever - he instead he held them their in a nice line and then released them

    If Trotting wasnt so amateurish and really so lazy - the video of race 3 at AP today would be sent to every starter around Aust - and told thats how  you start Pacers and Trotters in standing start races

    the only thing I'll say to that is this, for them to stand there in a perfectly straight line and allow for a start like that your relying on every horse being on its best behaviour and that just doesn't happen, it's an artform standing start racing both from a driver's perspective and the horses perspective, your very rarely going to see a perfect dispatch even the best drivers and best standing start horses are going to have the off day and miss the kick, you can send as many videos around to the drivers about how to step one but there are so many factors in allowing for a perfect start which are out of the control of drivers at release

    Betonme, JayJay likes this post.

  • savethegamesavethegame    2,798 posts
    Alot difference S.S. now as opposed to years gone,The old practice makes perfect with number of stands they had on a program plus the regal carts if drivers were encroaching on another's position they could stand up hold reins, and adjust there carts with free hand without breaking formation, Plus if there horses weren't tractable very little earning capacity, some horses were quicker beginners with ODS tags they would hang the horses head over outside fence, swing them around at release away they pace and left them as ods .‐- Called standing starts not walk up if your can't stand bad luck start fining them a hundred . York for awhile alot of the top drivers didn't race L Harper was a class above others at that venue Suvaljko brothers are very good but were fortunate enough to race in alot standing starts in late eighties. Still now regulars at Busselton.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,898 posts
    edited February 7

    Markovina said:

    Re the Standing starts - i have made my view clear on them 


    Apart from disliking them - what me pissses me off totally is different states have these imbecile methods of starting them - Vic and SA have tried circling them on the infield - it is real hit and miss stufff - and you see horses  just  stand their and then turn and pole axe other runners 

    Years back the starter use to yell out - stand them up - and that meant  its a start 

    Waiting for race 7 at AP because i had a bet in it  - I watched the start of the 1st 3 races at AP today - and they were all standing start Trotting gait races 

    2 things i noticed - 1 was by accident `- because there were quite a few runners either ODS or RODS - but there were some nice gaps between those horses , and as a result every horse stepped in those 3 races - so maybe even if there isnt ods horses -  have some nice  gaps between them - because then the horses are nice and relaxed and there is a good chance they will step - and every Trotter in those 3 races stepped today 

    Race 3 at AP (the replay on the AHR site - its got the best angle ) that is a classic - magnificent standing start - the starter would get 100 out of 100 - none of this hillbilly State method nonsense - circling or whatever - he instead he held them their in a nice line and then released them

    If Trotting wasnt so amateurish and really so lazy - the video of race 3 at AP today would be sent to every starter around Aust - and told thats how  you start Pacers and Trotters in standing start races

    the only thing I'll say to that is this, for them to stand there in a perfectly straight line and allow for a start like that your relying on every horse being on its best behaviour and that just doesn't happen, it's an artform standing start racing both from a driver's perspective and the horses perspective, your very rarely going to see a perfect dispatch even the best drivers and best standing start horses are going to have the off day and miss the kick, you can send as many videos around to the drivers about how to step one but there are so many factors in allowing for a perfect start which are out of the control of drivers at release
    You never properly read what  other posters posts 

    I said the system they use in different states - the Qld method where all horses stepped is a proper legit system - a proper " standing " start - thats why i gave the Qld starter 100 out of 100 - and race 3 is a brilliant example

    You point out the bleeding obvious its very difficult to get them all to stand and step - that is why i dont waste my money on them 

    Its all about the system - go to GP last Friday - 2 standing starts - the pacers one - very small field an absolute shocker - total farce

    But the Trotters - thats an illegal start in my opinion - this circleing rubbish - watch the no 1 horse - the pole horse in the yellow colours who led - it was the last 1 to circle - at no point is it stationary like the others - its on the move - that is a massive help for a horse to step - and in my opinion an unfair start 

    Queensland have a proper standing start system


    LightningJake, savethegame likes this post.

Sign In or Register to comment.