GP- Botra Cup

VillageKid · July 25

GP

Race 1- Rocknroll Spirit, Barbados, Rodasi, Acoltnamedsu

Race 2- Rocknroll Elliot, My Ultimate Baxter, Loucid Dreams, Solesseo Matuca

Race 3- Penny Black, Bramante Steps, Champagne Everyone, Pocket The Change

Race 4- Lake Pichola, Sebastian James, The Bettor Side, Captain Stirling

Race 5- Lusaka, Otis, Carana, Rock Artist

Race 6- Never Ending, Talks Up A Storm, Arma Einstein, Hampton Banner

Race 7- Rock Me Over, Awaitininstructions, Swagger Man, Infinite Sign

Race 8- Whataretheodds, Sorridere, Coney Island Lou, Crowd Control

Race 9- Sugar Street, Classic Choice, Sound Wave, American Bullitt

Race 10- Benji, Eton Rock, Lamandier, Hengheng

Northam

R1- Follow The Mikyway

R2- There And Then

R3- Watch Me Wave

R4- Disco Under Fire

R5- Rockin Rufus

R6- Allwoods Chevron

R7- Pick Me

sonny · July 26

Well done VK in the first... My bets..r2n6...r3n13...r5n10...r7n1....

JayJay · July 26

Anyone got any idea how My Ultimate Baxter and Joey James, draw Barrier 1 and barrier 2 as level 10 horses, inside level 8 horses drawn gate 3 and 4.....in a preferential draw race based on Level?

JayJay · July 26

Penny Black too classy, what a top mare but Rattlin Lilly doesn't own a white flag, couple of super runs there.

2lifetimewinners · July 26

Intercode double for our mate on here Ivory this week
Money makes money.

Jasper · July 26

JayJay said:
Anyone got any idea how My Ultimate Baxter and Joey James, draw Barrier 1 and barrier 2 as level 10 horses, inside level 8 horses drawn gate 3 and 4.....in a preferential draw race based on Level?

Is this one of those preference 40k races?If so every of the lower class horses will be classed as L10 and the barriers then will be rbd for all horses up to L10. Similar to country races in this respect when a horse competes in a race for higher level horses and can draw worse than a higher level horse. I find it a little confusing re these types of conditions in city races (apologies if I disliked your post, clumsy fingers,still learning etc)
Penny Black was outstanding. Skies the limit type horse.

Ivorytrunkey86 · July 26

I own half a leg of both but it’s awesome to have an interest with a couple with some ability,rocket doing an unreal job with her.

2lifetimewinners · July 26

Ivorytrunkey86 said:
I own half a leg of both but it’s awesome to have an interest with a couple with some ability,rocket doing an unreal job with her.

When they earn $1M between them that half a leg will be valuable haha
Congrats champ

Jasper · July 26

Congratulations, many more wins in store.

JayJay · July 26

Jasper said:

Is this one of those preference 40k races?If so every of the lower class horses will be classed as L10 and the barriers then will be rbd for all horses up to L10. Similar to country races in this respect when a horse competes in a race for higher level horses and can draw worse than a higher level horse. I find it a little confusing re these types of conditions in city races (apologies if I disliked your post, clumsy fingers,still learning etc)
Penny Black was outstanding. Skies the limit type horse.

Yes, I understand that, it was a bit of a rhetorical question, point being they list the race in the guides as a "PBD based on level" and it isn't. Punter in the street goes what is going on here, it says "PBD L" and two L10's draw inside two L8's. You couldn't devise a more complicated maze of a cocked up handicapping system if you tried.

Rocket_Reign · July 26

JayJay said:

Jasper said:

Is this one of those preference 40k races?If so every of the lower class horses will be classed as L10 and the barriers then will be rbd for all horses up to L10. Similar to country races in this respect when a horse competes in a race for higher level horses and can draw worse than a higher level horse. I find it a little confusing re these types of conditions in city races (apologies if I disliked your post, clumsy fingers,still learning etc)
Penny Black was outstanding. Skies the limit type horse.
Yes, I understand that, it was a bit of a rhetorical question, point being they list the race in the guides as a "PBD based on level" and it isn't. Punter in the street goes what is going on here, it says "PBD L" and two L10's draw inside two L8's. You couldn't devise a more complicated maze of a cocked up handicapping system if you tried.

Hey JayJay beat this, few weeks ago Pennys race was a level 7-11 drawn level she was a level 7 and she drew outside the 8s. Good luck explaining that to new owners

JayJay · July 26

Preaching to the converted Michael, Penny has every right to race through her levels and be placed appropriately, as would previously have been the case in either the old 2.28 system or the R/C/M system. It was called working through the classes.

Applying this crazy logic to NR would see a race, for example, for horses rated 70 to 78 advertised as PBD and the 80 rated horse drawing inside a 72 rater. The new owner, the new punter, the old rusted on punter....whoever....they just throw their hands in the air and walk away from us.

Over the last 6 years, it has been like drawing teeth to get a balance of PBD into the mix, accepting the place of RBD as appropriate and then they go and do stuff like this.

Gilgamesh · July 26

I've seen over east lately race for "winners of 1-3 races" or "winners of $15k or less."

What the hell are we doing?? We are running mini systems inside systems that don't work trying to fix them up, surely it can't be that hard!

warrenrobinson · July 27

No Handicap No Turnover No Future.

warrenrobinson · July 27

Handicapping is so easy but we continue to put up with incompetence.

getthechange · July 27

Rocket_Reign said:

JayJay said:

Jasper said:

Is this one of those preference 40k races?If so every of the lower class horses will be classed as L10 and the barriers then will be rbd for all horses up to L10. Similar to country races in this respect when a horse competes in a race for higher level horses and can draw worse than a higher level horse. I find it a little confusing re these types of conditions in city races (apologies if I disliked your post, clumsy fingers,still learning etc)
Penny Black was outstanding. Skies the limit type horse.
Yes, I understand that, it was a bit of a rhetorical question, point being they list the race in the guides as a "PBD based on level" and it isn't. Punter in the street goes what is going on here, it says "PBD L" and two L10's draw inside two L8's. You couldn't devise a more complicated maze of a cocked up handicapping system if you tried.

Hey JayJay beat this, few weeks ago Pennys race was a level 7-11 drawn level she was a level 7 and she drew outside the 8s. Good luck explaining that to new owners

good luck explaining to new and old owners how Lotakevi the winner of 17 races and $112k in stakes and stakes this season of $13k can draw inside horses with 6 wins and $33k in stakes let alone those with 1 -3 wins and less or close to less lifetime $ than Lotakevi has won this season . supportring NR for pref draw suggests that NR is a reasonable and transparently fair and understandable system - in my opinion NR is just a set of numbers that have little relevance to either histotrical or current form as has been expressed by trainers on ES harness racing forums - would be surprised if the owners and trainers of horses 2-3-8-9 in the attachment would be singing the praises of the NR but they cant complain because 40 draws in inside 41 and evidently that is all that matters

JayJay · July 27

Any handicapping system that incorporates "drop backs", either steroidal or non steroidal inspired, loses connect with historical form, that is simply a truism be it M/C/R or HWOE or the Current Conditioned Racing maze.

However it is a fair stretch to suggest NR doesn't take into account current form, that is the whole basis around which it is built. If we want true pure handicapping, we reject both HWOE/Conditioned and NR, set fire to the mobiles and buy a lot of elastic strands.

Seriously, that isn't going to happen, so in the 5 months we have got until NR is introduced, run templates, adopt local bylaws or rules to suit our horse population, run multiple theoretical scenarios over and over again, programme accordingly and produce a system based around the NATIONAL system (Yes, I am a centralist, a supporter of standard gauge rail) that inevitably won't suit everyone but will be an improvement on both of the systems currently operating

I believe that is what is happening.

Muldoon · July 29

Just catching up after a week away, Good Times Ahead at any price, great to see a battler get a win. Richie did well to pick it up early that it was a chance then called the got the 3rd horse's name twisted.

warrenrobinson · July 29

Just on the BOTRA Cup Franco Mecca has certainly improved since entering the Matt Scott stable.

JayJay · August 1

Declare a personal interest here but I've got a semi reasonable stand horse, Mikipelo, no world beater by any stretch but given he is level 7 and has won numerous stand races, we think stands best suit him (our perogative) until he can win another one, get to level 8 and start in the Metro L7/9 stand races on a Friday night and be almost guaranteed a start.

Prepared to come off back handicaps, so last Saturday Night, he runs 2nd off 30m at Narrogin beaten a lip. Nominate for Northam this Saturday off 20m, looked to be enough noms to run it, nope, some must have changed preference or scratched or whatever and the race falls over, presumably less than 8 starters. It is apparently okay to run $31,000 FFA's for 5 or 6 but different criteria for lower grade horses.

Okay, so we also nominate for the L8 stand at Pinjarra, not absolutely guaranteed a start as an L7 but again looks likely. Nope, cops a ballot as only 6 across the front, on equal level and points (31) as another L7 horse (the one that beat him by a lip at Narrogin) but no start for Miki. No idea how they distinguish between the two...stakes won?, HWOE/ toss a coin, and frankly can't be bothered navigating my way through the labrynth of Racing WA's new website to find out.

So as back up, Tuesday night mobile L$5 $12,000,PBD L$5 which means he draws bad and is racing L15 horses.....only race on the card he can start in.

The current system I find very demoralising at times, triggering my "I don't give a damn anymore about staying active in the industry' gene, which may well be music to the ears of some I suppose.

Jasper · August 1

Re Pinjarra La Vista has a higher HWOE amount than your horse so it is closer to meeting the preference criteria. Seems fair to me.

warrenrobinson · August 2

Hopefully moving forward the new person doing the programming and setting less conditions on races will get it right hopefully. ^:)^

getthechange · August 2

could have been entered for the L5/7 at Pinjarra where the L8+ horses couldnt start

could have been entered for the L5$LT$8000 at GPC

all of which have pref draws to even the fields up

we got a ballot from two races last week at Northam after finishing 2nd the previous week

too many $L5 to get a start in the L5$LT$4k race and not enough points to get a start in the L1/3

ballots happen

JayJay · August 2

Incorrect I believe on the L5$LT$8000 at GP Tuesday....ineligible due to 3nd placing at Narrogin 3 starts back

"NOT ELIGIBLE Horses Placed (2nd or 3rd) once or more in their last 3 Starts in a Race Level 8 or higher race"

So, having dared to choose stands as the preferred option, the only option was the $12k race.

Yes, after over 50 years of racing horses, I am quite aware that ballots happen but thanks for the reminder.

getthechange · August 3

i stand corrected

thought that may be the case about 5 minutes after I posted

Betonme · August 13

A lot of people don't go into the stands, because it blows their chances in these LT$8k races and so on. I think maybe a conspiracy to kill the stands a bit...or its just a gaping hole in the current system that the powers to be haven't worked out.

I have an L9 horse who loves the stands, but if I put him in one, even if he runs last, he becomes ineligible to go in the L5$ LT$8000, for at least 5 starts. So any hard work thats done to get them down into those races is ruined in one start.

JayJay said:
Incorrect I believe on the L5$LT$8000 at GP Tuesday....ineligible due to 3nd placing at Narrogin 3 starts back

"NOT ELIGIBLE Horses Placed (2nd or 3rd) once or more in their last 3 Starts in a Race Level 8 or higher race"

So, having dared to choose stands as the preferred option, the only option was the $12k race.

Yes, after over 50 years of racing horses, I am quite aware that ballots happen but thanks for the reminder.

Constantlybroke · August 14

Betonme said:
A lot of people don't go into the stands, because it blows their chances in these LT$8k races and so on. I think maybe a conspiracy to kill the stands a bit...or its just a gaping hole in the current system that the powers to be haven't worked out.
I have an L9 horse who loves the stands, but if I put him in one, even if he runs last, he becomes ineligible to go in the L5$ LT$8000, for at least 5 starts. So any hard work thats done to get them down into those races is ruined in one start.

JayJay said:
Incorrect I believe on the L5$LT$8000 at GP Tuesday....ineligible due to 3nd placing at Narrogin 3 starts back

"NOT ELIGIBLE Horses Placed (2nd or 3rd) once or more in their last 3 Starts in a Race Level 8 or higher race"

So, having dared to choose stands as the preferred option, the only option was the $12k race.

Yes, after over 50 years of racing horses, I am quite aware that ballots happen but thanks for the reminder.

Drives us mad with our little stand horse, they don’t hold up/not suitable every week but now she’s an L8 she can’t go in them even when they are as she’d get torched in her “level”

G'day Punter!

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