Gloucester Park Sale Proposal

SLIPPERGOLDEN · August 2022

Supposedly to the Senior Vice President's Son's Company.. Vote required but is a goer.

SLIPPERGOLDEN · August 2022

PP reports the above

freodockers · August 2022

Who’s the senior Vice President ???

JayJay · August 2022

Kevin Jeavons is the SVP and his son Kyle is a director of Hesperia, an Adrian Fini company, the development company that is in line to do all the "developing" (restore/repurpose the heritage listed buildings, knock down all the pre existing grandstands etc) and build residential towers on the land they buy (5.9 Ha on the Western Side of the site...total site area was around 14 Ha originally). I haven't received my members package as yet detailing everything but I think that is the fundamental gist of it all. Not sure who pays for the new stalls, the pavilion on the Eastern Side where the new finishing post will be but RWWA are stumping up $24 million of Industry funds (lighting upgrade, infrastructure upgrade ??? not sure), track size remains unchanged....I think that is correct.

getthechange · August 2022

for what it is worth

we sold our property to Linc about six years ago and The Managing director Ben Lisle came across as a decent guy - Ben Lisle is now Managing Director of Hesperia

https://www.businessnews.com.au/Company/Linc-Property

Gilgamesh · August 2022

JayJay said:
Kevin Jeavons is the SVP and his son Kyle is a director of Hesperia, an Adrian Fini company, the development company that is in line to do all the "developing" (restore/repurpose the heritage listed buildings, knock down all the pre existing grandstands etc) and build residential towers on the land they buy (5.9 Ha on the Western Side of the site...total site area was around 14 Ha originally). I haven't received my members package as yet detailing everything but I think that is the fundamental gist of it all. Not sure who pays for the new stalls, the pavilion on the Eastern Side where the new finishing post will be but RWWA are stumping up $24 million of Industry funds (lighting upgrade, infrastructure upgrade ??? not sure), track size remains unchanged....I think that is correct.

Just to follow on, think hesperia pay for the new stand, the 24 mil from RWWA is also for the stalls.

So from what I understand as you say Hesperia clear the old buildings, repair the heritage buildings which remain the ownership of GP, they build the new stand prior to this all happening.

They then take ownership of the area where the stands were and the members car park for their own purposes, the club is left with new facilities and around 10 Mil. This development also comes with the removal of a 15mil levy the state government had previously imposed on any development of the site.

The area of land on the river side is permanently gazetted for racing purposes hence the Western side has to be sold.

10 Mil in the bank and a new stand facing the sun does seem a bit underwhelming on face value for losing around 40% of your land but it is very hard to truly know without all the figures and any other potential proposals at Hand.

lick · August 2022

The land that GP sits on is some of the best prime scenic locations anywhere. I just hope, if they sell, that they get a premium price.

Consequently, why doesn't the portion of land go to Public Auction or Tender. That would then determine if there are other buyers out there.

Gilgamesh · August 2022

lick said:
The land that GP sits on is some of the best prime scenic locations anywhere. I just hope, if they sell, that they get a premium price.

Consequently, why doesn't the portion of land go to Public Auction or Tender. That would then determine if there are other buyers out there.

This proposal means they would only have to stop racing for a short period (couple of months) while they repositioned the winning post and made the required track changes.

As opposed to selling the land and then having to under go the development which would mean having no race facilities for a large amount of time.

Markovina · August 2022

So it is about 14 acres of land - but they havent got room for a bigger track -!!!!

This is utter madness - and history wont remember them well

It would be like the present Ascot gallops who had say a small tight turning gallops track - like York - and the Ascot Chairman coming out and saying - where going to do this fantastic redevelopment - have state of the art stabling area - spend all this money and sell alot of our land

However we are going to keep the little tight turning gallops track - because the off course Corporate bookies advise us that the punters like it and we can keep racing on it - while the redevolopment happens - thus we dont have to go to Bunbury where our turnover drops by 25% ( they were reasons Radley gave )

Now unnder those circumstances if that was proposed at Ascot - there would be outrage from trainers - owners - even politicians - and they would all be saying the same thinng - we want a proper size racetrack to showcase our product

Now if this was the gallops - there would be no chance of that redevelopment going ahead - keeping a tiny outdated front runners track - it would not have a hope in hell of proceeding

What they are propsing at Gloucester Park ( keeping the 800 metre track ) is a disgrace - an absolute disgrace

savethegame · August 2022

Tme to give Turd Van Heemst's interview with Wes . about Belmont Redevelopment a run here before it gets outta hand.

freodockers · August 2022

This whole idea is madness without knowing the value of the land as a whole.
Why would someone build a new stand and whatever else then take ownership of the old land and regenerate it.
Because there’s money in it that’s why.
10 million in the bank means what ???? Wages for the next few years.
There should be complete disclosure ie current financial position and some sort of proposal process for different scenarios.
The fact they have kept this all “in house” without going to tender is a joke to begin with.

lick · August 2022

So if the winning post is going to be on the other side of the track, does that mean all races will be 402.5 metres shorter or longer?

And will drivers get confused and take off earlier or later?

Just saying.

Markovina · August 2022

freodockers said:
This whole idea is madness without knowing the value of the land as a whole.
Why would someone build a new stand and whatever else then take ownership of the old land and regenerate it.
Because there’s money in it that’s why.
10 million in the bank means what ???? Wages for the next few years.
There should be complete disclosure ie current financial position and some sort of proposal process for different scenarios.
The fact they have kept this all “in house” without going to tender is a joke to begin with.

Agree entirely

The thing what you have to be careful about - is when you have presidents or vice presidents of clubs and they have building or property developments companies of their own and they intermix - sometimes it ends up in a terrible financial mess

And the best example of that - is the Mighty Hawthorn football club - they had a president pre the merger talks - who had his own big private building company - and he commissioned all this redevelopment work at Glenferrie Oval - re stands and buildings - highly debateable whether they needed it - and i think it was for around a million dollars - big money - so he did very well out of it - but for Hawthorn it financially crippled them - so much so - they nearly became the Melbourne Hawks

Pity Paul Murray isnt a trotting enthusiast - he would rip this redevelopment to pieces in his Sat column

Rocket_Reign · August 2022

Markovina said:
So it is about 14 acres of land - but they havent got room for a bigger track -!!!!

This is utter madness - and history wont remember them well

It would be like the present Ascot gallops who had say a small tight turning gallops track - like York - and the Ascot Chairman coming out and saying - where going to do this fantastic redevelopment - have state of the art stabling area - spend all this money and sell alot of our land

However we are going to keep the little tight turning gallops track - because the off course Corporate bookies advise us that the punters like it and we can keep racing on it - while the redevolopment happens - thus we dont have to go to Bunbury where our turnover drops by 25% ( they were reasons Radley gave )

Now unnder those circumstances if that was proposed at Ascot - there would be outrage from trainers - owners - even politicians - and they would all be saying the same thinng - we want a proper size racetrack to showcase our product

Now if this was the gallops - there would be no chance of that redevelopment going ahead - keeping a tiny outdated front runners track - it would not have a hope in hell of proceeding

What they are propsing at Gloucester Park ( keeping the 800 metre track ) is a disgrace - an absolute disgrace

Most of the trainers I speak to love GP and the size and so do the punters as said by the corps etc, can’t see anything but good about this development news. Just because you don’t like it and a few of the other older fellas we need a bigger track?

savethegame · August 2022

Have no problem with track----Who initiated this idea for there personal gain. 24 million for stalls thats also the amount harness receive in stakes for 12 months.-----Can remember when the codes had a block in the city which they received a look-away handball from Multiplex who's founder was a committeman and Chairman of WATC. Offices were build across from ascot racecourse .alleged the stink was in the millions for the codes. in the difference..

freodockers · August 2022

Most trainers are now based an hour plus from GP.
Two round trips a week for the next fourty years.
Add that up in fuel, travel time and wear and tear.
And that is the easy bit. Diesel will Sky Rocket once electric vehicles come into play.
And for those who are going to buy electric horse floats well you can take your spot in the queue waiting to charge your batteries whilst the horses stand around in the float for an hour on their way to the trots.
Yep it’s probably a majority decision in popularity but it needs a hell of a lot more consideration than just popularity amongst participants.

getthechange · August 2022

why cant the track be extended ??

Surely the Birdcage kiosk,stables and the building with the office and Garrards are not heritage listed

See attachment

JayJay · August 2022

Track size is an interesting one.....leaving it the same suggests the remarkable speed evolution of the standardbred will cease in the same month that the world record was reduced once again. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the stress on high speed horses from tight tracks is extremely detrimental or that they simply struggle to get around eg King Of Swing, Wildwest and others but that's just a minor factor that can be pushed to one side. Not increasing it also suggests that we will never see high class horses from the East for carnivals or major races ever again, undoubtedly an attractive factor in the past (dare I mention that word) but I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for Lochinvar Art, Ladies In Red or Ride High to venture west to get a slice of the rich prizemoney that is rightfully not theirs. Better off risking a chance meeting with your luggage and flying Qantas to Melton or Menangle if you wish to see them live. Apparently, according to recently qualified twitter track engineers, a change to the camber will fix everything and horses will be winning from the back of the field. I hear on the quiet that a return to 10 across the front single line mobile racing may re-emerge to haunt us from the past (that word again). Spirit Of St Louis a certainty to fly in should that occur.

Plus side includes the great viewing at half mile tracks, the atmosphere, the closeness to the action etc counteracted by the fact that unfortunately no one attends any more unless there are coinciding food festivals and fireworks displays on course. Leaving it the same suits those (primarily big) stables and mega punters who like GS L1 racing and $1.28 favourites (8 races fitted that framework from Friday night) assisted by a conditioned RBD racing system that serves up non races week after week which is apparently a huge incentive to big betting corporate punters who love bank interest returns but for which we never see any figures. No consideration given at all to the actual visual contest which is slumbersome week in week out with few actual "races"....those 2 minute mile rates for 6 FFA horses are just the ticket.... if you like a snorefest. Cheer, cheer Vultan Tin. The Head Sarong at GP keeps on about turnover being huge at GP (50% of turnover on 38% or races I think he said) but fails to mention the critical factor, time slot, Friday nights against regional Eastern States is surely preferable to the Saturday Night graveyard of provincial Narrogin against Menangle or Melton but again, no figures are ever provided. Always use high gloss paint to provide the best finish.

I eagerly await the arrival of my Members/Voting Package in the mail with the full transparency of detail, tendering processes, declarations of any possible conflict of interest and the obligatory artists impressions of 1000's of happy patrons smiling broadly (looking remarkably similar to the same patrons that accompanied the artists impressions of that now infamous Belmont Park Golden whatever it was redevelopment), whilst sipping champagne and nibbling on their canapes, and I look forward to seeing RWWA's no doubt compelling business case for a huge $24 million spend for 4,000 people, 3 times a year, to pack the GloucesterTheatre and glare into the sun at a completely unchanged product. Perhaps the "Hesperia Towers" on the Western Side will provide the appropriate screening, who knows. And maybe as time proceeds and traffic congestion and travel costs for horses to fight their way into the middle of Perth becomes prohibitive, the package will have answers for that as well.

But this project will get the votes required, the working of the phones prior to Wednesday night will assure that result, the conditions for a valid affirmative vote will easily be met. There are some with great power and influence who are determined to retain the current model and style of racing, I get that, they have invested long and strong and understandably prefer the status quo. Far too much pre-planning has gone into this for it to be any other result. To be honest, I don't give a flying fig what they do, it won't affect me going forward. By the time it is built (an ambitious date of 2024 I think I heard), I will be a non participant. Sold my in foal mare and a yearling last week, will race the others out...... down sizing is the new growth industry. There is no doubt something needed to happen as the venue infrastructure falls apart and a once vibrant iconic location morphes into a monumental white elephant but I guess I will have to wait to assess the no doubt compelling case that is contained in the package to decide on a yay or neigh.......or maybe not even vote at all. I'll close the door behind me.

Rocket_Reign · August 2022

JayJay said:
Track size is an interesting one.....leaving it the same suggests the remarkable speed evolution of the standardbred will cease in the same month that the world record was reduced once again. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the stress on high speed horses from tight tracks is extremely detrimental or that they simply struggle to get around eg King Of Swing, Wildwest and others but that's just a minor factor that can be pushed to one side. Not increasing it also suggests that we will never see high class horses from the East for carnivals or major races ever again, undoubtedly an attractive factor in the past (dare I mention that word) but I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for Lochinvar Art, Ladies In Red or Ride High to venture west to get a slice of the rich prizemoney that is rightfully not theirs. Better off risking a chance meeting with your luggage and flying Qantas to Melton or Menangle if you wish to see them live. Apparently, according to recently qualified twitter track engineers, a change to the camber will fix everything and horses will be winning from the back of the field. I hear on the quiet that a return to 10 across the front single line mobile racing may re-emerge to haunt us from the past (that word again). Spirit Of St Louis a certainty to fly in should that occur.

Plus side includes the great viewing at half mile tracks, the atmosphere, the closeness to the action etc counteracted by the fact that unfortunately no one attends any more unless there are coinciding food festivals and fireworks displays on course. Leaving it the same suits those (primarily big) stables and mega punters who like GS L1 racing and $1.28 favourites (8 races fitted that framework from Friday night) assisted by a conditioned RBD racing system that serves up non races week after week which is apparently a huge incentive to big betting corporate punters who love bank interest returns but for which we never see any figures. No consideration given at all to the actual visual contest which is slumbersome week in week out with few actual "races"....those 2 minute mile rates for 6 FFA horses are just the ticket.... if you like a snorefest. Cheer, cheer Vultan Tin. The Head Sarong at GP keeps on about turnover being huge at GP (50% of turnover on 38% or races I think he said) but fails to mention the critical factor, time slot, Friday nights against regional Eastern States is surely preferable to the Saturday Night graveyard of provincial Narrogin against Menangle or Melton but again, no figures are ever provided. Always use high gloss paint to provide the best finish.
I eagerly await the arrival of my Members/Voting Package in the mail with the full transparency of detail, tendering processes, declarations of any possible conflict of interest and the obligatory artists impressions of 1000's of happy patrons smiling broadly (looking remarkably similar to the same patrons that accompanied the artists impressions of that now infamous Belmont Park Golden whatever it was redevelopment), whilst sipping champagne and nibbling on their canapes, and I look forward to seeing RWWA's no doubt compelling business case for a huge $24 million spend for 4,000 people, 3 times a year, to pack the GloucesterTheatre and glare into the sun at a completely unchanged product. Perhaps the "Hesperia Towers" on the Western Side will provide the appropriate screening, who knows. And maybe as time proceeds and traffic congestion and travel costs for horses to fight their way into the middle of Perth becomes prohibitive, the package will have answers for that as well.

But this project will get the votes required, the working of the phones prior to Wednesday night will assure that result, the conditions for a valid affirmative vote will easily be met. There are some with great power and influence who are determined to retain the current model and style of racing, I get that, they have invested long and strong and understandably prefer the status quo. Far too much pre-planning has gone into this for it to be any other result. To be honest, I don't give a flying fig what they do, it won't affect me going forward. By the time it is built (an ambitious date of 2024 I think I heard), I will be a non participant. Sold my in foal mare and a yearling last week, will race the others out...... down sizing is the new growth industry. There is no doubt something needed to happen as the venue infrastructure falls apart and a once vibrant iconic location morphes into a monumental white elephant but I guess I will have to wait to assess the no doubt compelling case that is contained in the package to decide on a yay or neigh.......or maybe not even vote at all. I'll close the door behind me.

To be fair I don’t think anything would make you happy

Markovina · August 2022

Pity you didnt hang onto your mare in foal and yearling - Jay Jay - especially if it was the one sired by Soho Tribecta

I forget the name of your mare - but it was pretty tough - it could grind out a 57 final 800

Thats a pretty good match that

JayJay · August 2022

Cheers for the analysis Smiling Boy, I'm reassured. I'll bare you in mind next time the Samaritans are engaged. Do you bulk bill?

Vincent_vega · August 2022

Have come across the developer a few times, generally they dont buy land, they option it up and flick it on. When they were Linc they used to buy it but not so much anymore.

Cant see why a valuation wouldn't be put to the members? Red flag in my opinion. the members need to push to see this and it needs to be made available.

Other than that, go ahead and do it. Development and new facilities are always a good thing.

Gilgamesh · August 2022

Rocket_Reign said:

Markovina said:
So it is about 14 acres of land - but they havent got room for a bigger track -!!!!

This is utter madness - and history wont remember them well

It would be like the present Ascot gallops who had say a small tight turning gallops track - like York - and the Ascot Chairman coming out and saying - where going to do this fantastic redevelopment - have state of the art stabling area - spend all this money and sell alot of our land

However we are going to keep the little tight turning gallops track - because the off course Corporate bookies advise us that the punters like it and we can keep racing on it - while the redevolopment happens - thus we dont have to go to Bunbury where our turnover drops by 25% ( they were reasons Radley gave )

Now unnder those circumstances if that was proposed at Ascot - there would be outrage from trainers - owners - even politicians - and they would all be saying the same thinng - we want a proper size racetrack to showcase our product

Now if this was the gallops - there would be no chance of that redevelopment going ahead - keeping a tiny outdated front runners track - it would not have a hope in hell of proceeding

What they are propsing at Gloucester Park ( keeping the 800 metre track ) is a disgrace - an absolute disgrace

Most of the trainers I speak to love GP and the size and so do the punters as said by the corps etc, can’t see anything but good about this development news. Just because you don’t like it and a few of the other older fellas we need a bigger track?

Mate you can't say that last night was good high quality, competitive, entertaining racing.

Or the Friday night before that. Or the Friday night before that. Or the Friday before that for that matter.

Now I'm not going to entirely blame the track, I blame the handicapping/field selection method almost entirely.

In terms of the volume being bet it isn't due to the high quality racing, it's just that more of us are rusted on over here.

If there was decent money being bet we wouldn't be getting out stripped by the greyhounds year on year.

In terms of the proposal, how can one say it is the way forward or it isn't without knowing the ins and outs? "This is the best way forward" just does not cut it, particularly when the value of what is being given up for it is not being disclosed.

freodockers · August 2022

I said some time ago on this forum they will line up to be in the sale of GP.
And here it is.

Gilgamesh · August 2022

Vincent_vega said:
Have come across the developer a few times, generally they dont buy land, they option it up and flick it on. When they were Linc they used to buy it but not so much anymore.

Cant see why a valuation wouldn't be put to the members? Red flag in my opinion. the members need to push to see this and it needs to be made available.

Other than that, go ahead and do it. Development and new facilities are always a good thing.

Yeah the Belmont development has been a huge success.

The new Cannington is a real winner too.

PictureSon1973 · August 2022

How Sad that years of Mismanagement & Poor Asset / Product initiative we find ourselves in this situation of being cornered into selling in order to guarantee the short term future of Harness in
W.A .
The question I pose is the Fundamentals why would a Developer who is Owned by a very astute
Business Man look at buying the property and developing / construct when cost of constrction is
at unsustainable levels it doesn’t add up .
Unless the property you are buying is at a very good price and you don’t intend to build within the
next 2 Years or the Developer has already a Buyer or Tennant that will Buy / Lease the whole
Property? They won’t do it unless there Risk is minimal & Profit maximised.
In saying that that is there prerogative and good on them for doing all the feasibility & Research.
IMO only the Western Side of G.P the strip that runs parallel to the Rd on the Undulating Land
including Members Car Park can be sold current Granstand Land to be retained no compromise.
On face value there seems to be a conflict of interest .
WATA should provide land as proposed / Developer Builds / Long Term Lease to Federal / State
Tenants split Profits and WATA has a new sustainable revenue stream .

SLIPPERGOLDEN · August 2022

Okay so track sale and development idea is forwarded but how about attracting decent crowds to the track? Whichever way you develop it the crowd attendance for the most part will remain pitiful

savethegame · August 2022

Surely if rwwa got 24mil. to throw around they could buy that land which was available near pinjarra track ? don.t know if it still is ? .Multi purpose stabling for young galloping and harness trainers. One bedroom units with amenties varying sizes in setups.

Seems cut and dried that Pinjarra is the most appropriate location for the codes. Of cause there would be fair bit to workout regards Rules--- slow work tracks to suit gallopers .. rent fees. etc the future is always in young'ns

Brownbread · August 2022

Me thinks it’s a good idea the development and appears no other real option

They can’t maintain the place and no matter what you build patrons will never return apart from when the new stand/theatre opens. At least it’s more accessible for 7 day trading as on the west side so will be handy when the football is on, hope they put a pub with state of the art tab in there with decent screens to watch sport and racing on.

Forget spending $ on a harness museum as will just be a cash drain to run it hope they don’t think it will attract tourist buses e.g.the waca museum.

As to the 800m track at least it promotes some action compared to larger tracks that are boring e.g menangle melton etc etc

Rocket_Reign · August 2022

Brownbread said:
Me thinks it’s a good idea the development and appears no other real option
They can’t maintain the place and no matter what you build patrons will never return apart from when the new stand/theatre opens. At least it’s more accessible for 7 day trading as on the west side so will be handy when the football is on, hope they put a pub with state of the art tab in there with decent screens to watch sport and racing on.
Forget spending $ on a harness museum as will just be a cash drain to run it hope they don’t think it will attract tourist buses e.g.the waca museum.
As to the 800m track at least it promotes some action compared to larger tracks that are boring e.g menangle melton etc etc

Completely agree also agree about the museum that’s a waste in this day and age, put in a great pub and plenty of good places to get food and the place will thrive even if the racing is a second thought

curmudgeon · August 2022

Seems a bit incongruous to me to sell off a percentage of GP real estate in order to fund a rejigging of the geometry & geography of racing at the same venue.

Certainly the value of the remnant land will be diminished compared to the current complete asset value should a further sale be carried out at some time in the future.

GP is being painted into a corner location wise. Perhaps it is time to maximize return & sell the lot & move out. Crowds are a thing of the past & TV/Internet coverage now delivers the product into the loungeroom.

Building on the Nelson Ave side may also be problematic in terms of cost. A tunnel under the track proposal to allow parking in the middle of GP was discontinued due to the high water table requiring extensive site work I believe. .

There is plenty of work to be done in the delivery of our core product without entering the fraught world of site development for third party interest.

G'day Punter!

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