G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

2 Members & 7 Non Members

WA Stallion coverings 2017

Breeding
DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
edited January 2018 Breeding
There were a few good stories in an otherwise bleak outlook for WA Breeders following the 2017 season. Those Stallions that had increases or remained close to numbers from the 2016 season included Oratorio (2015/56 2016/47 2017/55) Playing God 46/33/57, God Has Spoken 46/82/72, Demerit 30(2014) 0 injured/70/78, with Maschino bouncing back from 21/9/49. Stallions such as So Secret maintained modest numbers at 18/15/14, Vital Equine 19/20/16, Proart 19/20/16 and Dash For Cash 11/15/24.

First season Sires Awesome Rock at 64, Vert de Grece 60 did well, Lucky Street had modest support at 40 with King's Troop getting just 23 mares. Unfortunately none could be regarded as commercial success stories.

Stallions in decline however were the story of 2017. Gingerbread Man fell from the mid 50's to 32, Ouqba 39/24/16, City Place 58/18/24, Universal Ruler 67/39/22, Trade Fair 71/51/35, Patronize 42/16/19, Planet Five 23/13/5, Hala Bek 54/24/5, Famous Roman 9/39/3, My Atacanta 16/11/2, with All American 26/113/28 and Alfred Nobel 88/112/13 between them dropping almost 200 mares.

Galah would be hoping for positive yearling purchases off the back of 60/40/30, likewise Sessions 55/33/21 and Safeguard 60/45/35.

So as a very rough estimate, the WA breeding numbers for WA  based Stallions, declined by almost 20% last year from the previous year.

Comments

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
    We also lost a number of Stallions from the previous couple of seasons including WA Champion Blackfriars, Viscount, Scandal Keeper, Danehill Express, Smug and Kendel Star.
  • jumjum    3,518 posts
    Alfred Nobel :-&  that is major decline
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
    Another interesting trend has been the offerings of Interstate based Stallion yearlings that have been sold with Westspeed eligibility attached.

    In 2015 of the 397 yearlings on offer, 120 or 30% of the book was Interstate based Stallions. That was maintained in 2016 with 110 of the 349 on offer or 31%. However in 2017 it fell dramatically to 18% or 69 from 368 yearlings on offer and in this coming sale that has been further reduced in overall numbers to 302, just 55 (but still 18%) are from Interstate based Stallions that also have Westspeed attached.

    Bearing in mind that the Perth Yearling Sale in 2011 had 686 offerings, 2012 had 580, 2013 had 415, and 2014 had 415.

    I don't believe the current Platinum scheme has had a great effect to date on these numbers, but it well could in years ahead. What is worrying is the lack of overall numbers to begin with. We are just not breeding enough horses to entice non WA Owners. Our sales price averages decline every year as well making it just harder each year for the small to medium business to survive. This in turn reduces options to buyers as breeding decisions become centralised in the hands of fewer and fewer commercial breeders.


  • silkysilky    344 posts
    Others of note getting support were

    Im all the talk - 62 down from 72 last yr
    Snippetson - 70 down from 77
    My Admiration - 40 down from 42

    1st Season

    Rommell 56
    Mahuta 45

    RIO likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
    silky said:

    Others of note getting support were

    Im all the talk - 62 down from 72 last yr
    Snippetson - 70 down from 77
    My Admiration - 40 down from 42

    1st Season

    Rommell 56
    Mahuta 45

    yes sorry I didn't mention all and missed those couple of new boys.
  • jumjum    3,518 posts
    Rommel served 56 mares. :-O  :-O  :-O  Well I'll be Farked.

    RIO likes this post.

  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    jum said:

    Rommel served 56 mares. :-O  :-O  :-O  Well I'll be Farked.

    check the owners of the stallion and then the owners of the mares....I haven't and i'm not suggesting anything untowards, but that is just how some of these sires get better numbers than expected.

    At a guess i'd reckon Snippetson will have a significant jump next season ;-)

    jum likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
    Rio, it would be suicidal for a Stallion syndicate not to have a fairly decent number of broodmares and preferably genetically matched to that bull. I couldn't imagine going to the expense of securing a well performed stallion without at least 40 broodmares to kick him off.

    40 would give you in the order of maybe 35 live foals. Perhaps 25 make it to a trial, with hopefully three or more individual race winners in his first season, breaking double figures when said stallion has two crops racing thus confirming his status. Based on this formula, you would have covered 200 mares for 140 live foals and be hoping to have at least 10 winners with the oldest as 3yo's.

    So you can see just how critical it is to get to 75 plus mares in the first three years to give any stallion an ongoing commercial chance of success.

    Just a footnote: Bob Peters has in excess of 40 broodmares standing in the Hunter Valley. All are either Group winners, Group producers or both. All go to either proven bulls or performers at the highest level commanding mega bucks for services. If he gets it right, this is almost an insurmountable hill to overcome in standing a Stallion here in WA knowing that your stock has to race against them as three year old's. The only saving grace is those in the main who are 1000M to 1200M and those that produce early performing two year old's.

    Bearing that in mind also determines how much a yearling can command in a WA sale.

     
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    jum said:

    Alfred Nobel :-&  that is major decline

    And half the sales catalogue is his stock...... MM will be twitchy.


    RIO, jum likes this post.

  • RIORIO    14,882 posts
    No need to direct that note to me Damo. I know that, and that is why I said

    I haven't and i'm not suggesting anything untowards, but that is just how some of these sires get better numbers than expected

    But it is good to highlight that info to everyone

  • silkysilky    344 posts
    God has spoken covered 82 mares in 2016 for 26 live foals according to the stud book.. Would be more foals on the ground than that surely??
  • TiversTivers    7,720 posts
    Only 35 mares returned.
    Tend to find with a lot of the lower priced stallions there's a lot of "hobby mares", the owners of which aren't as attentive with the administration as the professional breeders.
    (Coz unless there were 50 mares covered in December 2016 - there's a lot of mare returns overdue).

    silky likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts

    Another interesting trend has been the offerings of Interstate based Stallion yearlings that have been sold with Westspeed eligibility attached.

    In 2015 of the 397 yearlings on offer, 120 or 30% of the book was Interstate based Stallions. That was maintained in 2016 with 110 of the 349 on offer or 31%. However in 2017 it fell dramatically to 18% or 69 from 368 yearlings on offer and in this coming sale that has been further reduced in overall numbers to 302, just 55 (but still 18%) are from Interstate based Stallions that also have Westspeed attached.

    Bearing in mind that the Perth Yearling Sale in 2011 had 686 offerings, 2012 had 580, 2013 had 415, and 2014 had 415.

    I don't believe the current Platinum scheme has had a great effect to date on these numbers, but it well could in years ahead. What is worrying is the lack of overall numbers to begin with. We are just not breeding enough horses to entice non WA Owners. Our sales price averages decline every year as well making it just harder each year for the small to medium business to survive. This in turn reduces options to buyers as breeding decisions become centralised in the hands of fewer and fewer commercial breeders.


    Just thought I would give this a bump from 12 months ago in where I referenced Interstate offerings in MM Sales going back three years
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
    Heard a very interesting snippet the other day. Kings Troop in his first crop covered just 24 mares, for 19 live foals. A reasonable amount of those are expected to make the 2020 MM Sale as they are regarded as very high quality. A stunning result if it happens this way. I don't know how many he will serve this season following his move to Oakland Park but you may wish to consider any late mares you may have.
  • GoddGodd    200 posts
    How will new sure ducimus fair ?
  • MinesACoronaMinesACorona    184 posts
    Godd said:

    How will new sure ducimus fair ?




    Pretty well considering they are giving them away for free
  • RodentRodent    7,091 posts
    Godd said:

    How will new sure ducimus fair ?

    Just got his 3rd individual 2yo winner in Paris Calling.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
    Ducimus will cover close to 90 mares I understand this year and next year looks to have a service fee increase.


    Godd said:

    How will new sure ducimus fair ?




    Pretty well considering they are giving them away for free
    I don't think this comment is ageing well. 
  • wedgewedge    267 posts
    2023 numbers

    Ducimus 78 
    Maschino 64 
    playing god 138
    bondi 23
    manhattan rain 36
    universal ruler 85
    awesome rock 34
    marine one 61
    lightsaber 98
    safeguard 50
    sessions 59
    splintex 108
    shooting to win 28
    a lot 69
    aysar 88
    war chant 8
    jimmy choux 23
    rommel 49
    long leaf 63
    gingerbread man 84
    all american 7
    hi world 28
    spiritjim 20
    leonardo da hinchi 9
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,693 posts
    Kings Troop 9

    God Has Spoken 5

    ..............................

    Awesome Rock is much better than what he is getting imo 

    A lot of faith has been placed in some of those new Stallions. 
Sign In or Register to comment.