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Well Done Stewards

West Australian Racing

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  • H-BOMBERH-BOMBER    10,567 posts
    said:

    you were probably under a table, H-bomber... :lol:

    Ha yeah, did not go quite to plan the back end of the card! Great to meet you mate, hope you faired alot better than I did in the end
  • wedgewedge    269 posts
    said:

    said:

    http://tinyurl.com/czefwod

    finallly....telling it how it is.

    They are disappointed thay lost the protest and $400k additional prizemoney :shock:
    semipro, the horse is a bull. it makes a significant difference to the value and future of the horse.
  • SemipropunterSemipropunter    438 posts
    said:

    said:

    said:

    http://tinyurl.com/czefwod

    finallly....telling it how it is.

    They are disappointed thay lost the protest and $400k additional prizemoney :shock:
    semipro, the horse is a bull. it makes a significant difference to the value and future of the horse.
    I realise that, but my point is it's hardly suprising they're unhappy with the result.
  • wedgewedge    269 posts
    like a few other posters quoted, controversy aside had a great day! got great tips off an ex jock, how to buy tight black pants and a shirt that looks like you've just won the railway on modem. :lol: :wink: 8) ....
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,482 posts
    too much info, wedge...wasn't IA by any chance?
  • ICEICE    683 posts
    20m more Lucky wins after boucing off the rails KM LIED and said he looked around and in viewing the film he did not then he slip up and said he shifted out,then he asked Chu to come and back up his statement ,wrong move he needed a bigger shovel after he opened his mouth 8)
  • he looked after Ponty got flattened, if he knew he never moved out why did he look?
  • lets_elopelets_elope    299 posts
    How about at least admitting the possibility that you are incorrect Piston, Roger James is a class act and has never been one to whinge.

    Try reading his quotes in the paper and elsewhere, the patrol vision was nowhere near up to scratch and as previously stated by myself and other there was nothing in the vision that indicated it was He's Remarkable that clipped Waratah's Secret, there was definite pressure from the outside at the time and seemingly, on the word of a jockey trying to avoid suspension himself, the stewards have taken it as gospel that Big Ted didn't shift in.

    The question one could well ask does this come down to the ego's of those involved after having publicly stated they would put riders on the spot prior to the two Group 1's about the consequences of any interference which affects other runners chances, having done this did they then feel compelled to act, otherwise, their authority could be perceived to have been undermined.

    How come McEvoy's still exactly where he was prior to and after the interference and it is a number of strides after the interference that he takes up that position, no doubt he half shunts a beaten horse in Big Ted out of the way but that happens in virtually every race and was of little consequence to anyone.

    To attribute the interference solely to He's Remarkable and McEvoy based on the available vision which is totally inconclusive and uphold that protest in a Group 1 in which so much hinges on the result is grossly unprofessional and an embarrassment to the sport in WA.

    This also begs the questions maybe if the Turf club and RWWA actually had their priorities correct and weren't needlessly throwing away industry money like it was water on other matters, we might have been provided with quality vision that ensured that any decision made was the correct one and just as importantly could be conclusively shown to be the correct one.
  • thefalconthefalcon    20,482 posts
    well said l-e.... :wink:
  • lets_elopelets_elope    299 posts
    From the NZ Herald

    http//www.nzherald.co.nz/racing/news/article.cfm?c_id=53&objectid=10767566


    Racing Remarkable reversal of James' fortunes
    By Mike Dillon
    530 AM Monday Nov 21, 2011

    "Disgraceful" and "Home-town decision" are just two of the comments around New Zealand star galloper He's Remarkable being relegated from first to second in Saturday's A$1 million ($1.3 million) Railway Stakes in Perth on Saturday.

    And those are from Australia, not New Zealand.

    Astute race readers on both sides of the Tasman cannot believe He's Remarkable was rubbed out in favour of local West Australian galloper, the $4 favourite Luckygray, after alleged interference 600m from the finish.

    The controversial relegation has implications much wider than simply the considerable winning stakemoney.

    He's Remarkable is a magnificent individual with a stallion's pedigree.

    If he fails to win another group one race in Australia, the loss from this decision will be in the ballpark of many millions of dollars.

    You need to listen to impartial opinions in such matters.

    Brian Taylor, of Melbourne-based bookmaking agency DoubleBet, slated the inquiry decision despite it saving his agency considerable money.

    "I just cannot believe that. They're talking about indirect interference 600m from the finish of a race. You're kidding.

    "Poetic Prince losing the Caulfield Guineas in the inquiry room was an obscenity and this is close to that."

    New Zealand trainer John Wheeler says he will hold his disappointment over that decision for the rest of his life.

    He's Remarkable's trainer Roger James, ever the conservative, was obviously devastated when the Herald spoke to him in Perth yesterday and also surprised. "There are a lot of aspects here, but for mine the over-riding one is the principle that to take a group one off a horse there has to be absolutely no doubt about the winner's culpability.

    "Not only is there doubt, there was not one piece of evidence produced by stewards that showed it was even He's Remarkable that caused any interference at all.

    "That alone should have been sufficient to have the protest dismissed."

    Australian jockey Kerrin McEvoy looked as though he was attempting to ease He's Remarkable off the rails for a short distance before the interference occurred.

    McEvoy had managed to get the stallion half a width away from the rail and the horse outside him, Waratah's Secret, was getting pressure from on its outer from a runner three deep.

    The rider of that three-deep horse, Marco Hui, told the inquiry he was riding his mount to hold his position.

    "In my evidence, I told the stewards that horse had its head turned sideways and even its rider declared the horse had a tendency to hang in.

    "I alleged that horse that copped the interference almost certainly created its own problems.

    "I pointed out that when you're riding to hold your position horses have a tendency to run around."

    He's Remarkable got clear in the home straight and held out Luckygray by a long neck.

    "I told the inquiry we had to get away from the emotion of a horse [second horse] flashing home and make a decision solely on evidence of who caused the interference. There was no evidence." James was given plenty of confidence when he and the other participants were asked to leave the inquiry room and await the decision.

    "A Sydney journalist said to me 'Which law school did you attend? You nailed it in there, you'll have no problems.'

    "Unfortunately, stewards saw it differently."

    There is no right of appeal on this decision.

    "I later asked about that and although the chairman of stewards contradicted himself, the only appeal can be if there was procedural issues."

    If there was a best and fairest award in racing James would have a couple of them. He states his opinion devoid of emotion. Like his summation of McEvoy's performance in the inquiry room. "Without being critical I've had better jockeys on my side in the [inquiry] room.

    "I've had more eloquent jockeys. Kerrin is such a gentleman; he doesn't say a great deal with any force.

    "I felt he could have shown a bit more killer instinct."

    He's Remarkable was an expensive yearling purchase and should now have two group one victories alongside his name. He almost certainly would have won the 2000 Guineas had his rider's whip not broken.

    "I feel sorry for the owners. I told them last night that the winning stake might have been A$450,000, but losing the race has cost them between $4 million and $5 million.

    "I also feel sorry for the horse."

    Excuse us if we also feel sorry for Roger James.
  • said:

    How about at least admitting the possibility that you are incorrect Piston, Roger James is a class act and has never been one to whinge.

    Try reading his quotes in the paper and elsewhere, the patrol vision was nowhere near up to scratch and as previously stated by myself and other there was nothing in the vision that indicated it was He's Remarkable that clipped Waratah's Secret, there was definite pressure from the outside at the time and seemingly, on the word of a jockey trying to avoid suspension himself, the stewards have taken it as gospel that Big Ted didn't shift in.

    The question one could well ask does this come down to the ego's of those involved after having publicly stated they would put riders on the spot prior to the two Group 1's about the consequences of any interference which affects other runners chances, having done this did they then feel compelled to act, otherwise, their authority could be perceived to have been undermined.

    How come McEvoy's still exactly where he was prior to and after the interference and it is a number of strides after the interference that he takes up that position, no doubt he half shunts a beaten horse in Big Ted out of the way but that happens in virtually every race and was of little consequence to anyone.

    To attribute the interference solely to He's Remarkable and McEvoy based on the available vision which is totally inconclusive and uphold that protest in a Group 1 in which so much hinges on the result is grossly unprofessional and an embarrassment to the sport in WA.

    This also begs the questions maybe if the Turf club and RWWA actually had their priorities correct and weren't needlessly throwing away industry money like it was water on other matters, we might have been provided with quality vision that ensured that any decision made was the correct one and just as importantly could be conclusively shown to be the correct one.

    There is every possibility I am wrong, Big Ted no doubt shifted, but H E moved more, even if they both moved they are both responsible, the fact that McEvoy said he moved is blind to you. He admitted his horse shifted out, he had no right to take W S running, he has to be 2 lengths clear, he also moved out and took Big Teds running. While he was shifting out H E was off and gone and L G was k O 'd all because of the initial shift. What do you think R James is going to say? If the race is in doubt you have to fight to keep it, which neither McEvoy or James did, plenty to say after the race but not much to say in the room when it mattered. Once McEvoy admitted he shifted, O"Donnell was very quick to keep hammering home that point to the stewards.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,985 posts
    Loads of viewpoints at trials today. Some were adamant that McEvoy moved out twice, that from a senior rider in the race. Also the Stewards were black & white in their certainty, they had no doubt at all.

    It will be one of those races that will have a few moments of fame for all the wrong reasons.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    he looked after Ponty got flattened, if he knew he never moved out why did he look?

    you dismissed chui looking did you not?
    so one is nothing and the other a big deal?

    and i thank you for the answers to my 2 questions....just what i expected the answers to be, so i now know to take you with a grain of salt..
  • lets_elopelets_elope    299 posts
    Unquestionably one of the most irresponsible and unprofessional decisions that I've seen on a racetrack, and with the camera technology currently available to serve up the poor quality patrol vision that was available to them was an embarrassment and is an indictment upon those in charge of the industry.

    The whole shabby affair is a terrible blight on WA racing, they produced zero proof that McEvoy caused the interference and even less proof that he was responsible for the interference to Luckygray and if possible they provided even less proof for their assertion that Luckygray would have won the race without that interference.

    They backed them themselves into a corner beforehand with their pre race lectures ( jockeys aren't stupid and everyone know what's on the line and the potential consequences for rash actions in races such as these so why treat them like school children) in the first place and they then felt compelled to act when the interference occurred to do something to avoid their authority being perceived to be undermined.

    The decision had nothing to do whatsoever with conclusive video evidence as there was none and had far more to do with the ego's involved than anything resembling a factual basis for upholding that objection.
  • DarkDark    909 posts
    said:

    Unquestionably one of the most irresponsible and unprofessional decisions that I've seen on a racetrack, and with the camera technology currently available to serve up the poor quality patrol vision that was available to them was an embarrassment and is an indictment upon those in charge of the industry.

    The whole shabby affair is a terrible blight on WA racing, they produced zero proof that McEvoy caused the interference and even less proof that he was responsible for the interference to Luckygray and if possible they provided even less proof for their assertion that Luckygray would have won the race without that interference.

    They backed them themselves into a corner beforehand with their pre race lectures ( jockeys aren't stupid and everyone know what's on the line and the potential consequences for rash actions in races such as these so why treat them like school children) in the first place and they then felt compelled to act when the interference occurred to do something to avoid their authority being perceived to be undermined.

    The decision had nothing to do whatsoever with conclusive video evidence as there was none and had far more to do with the ego's involved than anything resembling a factual basis for upholding that objection.

    Whilst i don't really feel strongly about the incident one way or the other, didn't Mcevoy say he caused the interference? My understanding is the stewards are going on Mcevoy causing the interference that cost LUCKYGRAY more than the final margin.

    Before someone comes on and says he pleaded guilty to reduce his suspension, what would you rather:

    A) 4 weeks off with no G1 and no share of $1M
    B) 6 weeks off with a G1 and a share of $1M
  • GlenmoreParkGlenmorePark    527 posts
    Just watched the replay and I have to agree that the Stewards acted correctly. Obvious that McEvoy causes the interference to Waratah's Secret who falls back into Ranger's lap and O'Donell has no choice but to take hold of Luckygray. McEvoy is bloody lucky he only got 4 weeks bloody cowboy
  • lets_elopelets_elope    299 posts
    edited November 2011
    Pleaded guilty at the hearing conducted after the protest was upheld stewards have already made up their minds about his guilt and he's know that he would only make things worse and then not get the benefit of the 10% penalty reduction for pleading guilty if he elects to fight it so it's a no brainer for McEvoy then to plead guilty.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    Just watched the replay and I have to agree that the Stewards acted correctly. Obvious that McEvoy causes the interference to Waratah's Secret who falls back into Ranger's lap and O'Donell has no choice but to take hold of Luckygray. McEvoy is bloody lucky he only got 4 weeks bloody cowboy

    B U L L S H I T ........... you can't possibly see what does not exist.
    i will repeat, anybody that says they can see it is.....D I S H O N E S T
  • GhurkaGhurka    254 posts
    said:

    said:

    Just watched the replay and I have to agree that the Stewards acted correctly. Obvious that McEvoy causes the interference to Waratah's Secret who falls back into Ranger's lap and O'Donell has no choice but to take hold of Luckygray. McEvoy is bloody lucky he only got 4 weeks bloody cowboy

    B U L L S H I T ........... you can't possibly see what does not exist.
    i will repeat, anybody that says they can see it is.....D I S H O N E S T
    thats your opinion/observation, just cos you say otherwise doesnt mean you are right.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    as for who caused it, no i can't.
    for anybody claiming they can see what happened, comment stands...THEY ARE LIARS
  • DarkDark    909 posts
    said:

    as for who caused it, no i can't.
    for anybody claiming they can see what happened, comment stands...THEY ARE LIARS

    Now carey don't play the man.

    How do you know Damien or someone else doesn't have a print of the moment of the interference?
  • lets_elopelets_elope    299 posts
    Carey you're wasting your time and breathe trying to mount a logical argument with imbeciles like that, thay have their head so far up their respective arses they wouldn't see daylight for a month.

    I'm through arguing the point with losers who can't compehend a logical factual point of view.

    If they wish to to accept deplorable standards such as this from racing officials then these people get exactly what they deserve and that is abject embarrassment on the national and international stage when the spotlight is firmly on the WA racing scene on one of our biggest race days and WA racing appearing as amateurish as ever.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    that's not playing anything, it's simply stating the truth.
    there is no vision showing it, or it would have been played at the protest hearing....and it wasn't.
  • SemipropunterSemipropunter    438 posts
    The race is now posted on youtube:



    I think it's pretty clear McEvoy is looking to get off the rail 200m before the interefence. At the 800m he comes half a horse of the rail tries to push Westriver Kevydonn out of the way, but is put back in the pocket. At this point Big Ted is moving forward where he is actually marginally ahead of He's Remarkable when the interference occurs. It has been suggested that both horses shifted but the fact that BT is maybe a 1/4 lengths infront of HR is further supported by the shift outwards by WS after the contact. You will notice the rider of Ranger, Willie Pike, is angling to the outside of Waratah's Secret, when WS shifts into his path.

    I have heard it said that the interference broke the field up but HR got the most benefit of this. He was behind Avienus and going nowhere before he got off the rail. When he shifts, he takes WS's rightfull run-if WS holds his line how does HR get off the rail? He doesn't win the race without this illegal move imo. He's on the rail STILL into the staright and sweating on a run. Luckygray was following Tranquility before the interference, and still ultimately followed that horse-it's just that the interference meant LG was 2-3 lengths further back than he would have been. The fact is LG got a checkered run and HR got a charmed, clear passage.
  • DarkDark    909 posts
    said:

    that's not playing anything, it's simply stating the truth.
    there is no vision showing it, or it would have been played at the protest hearing....and it wasn't.

    Suggest you read my post again carey, never mentioned stewards vision.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    Carey you're wasting your time and breathe trying to mount a logical argument with imbeciles like that, thay have their head so far up their respective arses they wouldn't see daylight for a month.

    I'm through arguing the point with losers who can't compehend a logical factual point of view.

    If they wish to to accept deplorable standards such as this from racing officials then these people get exactly what they deserve and that is abject embarrassment on the national and international stage when the spotlight is firmly on the WA racing scene on one of our biggest race days and WA racing appearing as amateurish as ever.

    yes, you are correct.
    i don't know why i feel so strongly about this because it had absolutely no effect on me(unless ws had won, which is unlikely).
    but it's the most absurd decision i have seen in nearly 40 years of racing.
    and the worst thing is that the stewards can do that without even seeing what happened.
  • careycarey    6,424 posts
    said:

    said:

    that's not playing anything, it's simply stating the truth.
    there is no vision showing it, or it would have been played at the protest hearing....and it wasn't.

    Suggest you read my post again carey, never mentioned stewards vision.
    because he has one RIGHT AFTER the interference that shows hr still only half a horse off the rail and big ted right next to it.
    it was half a horse off the rail before the interference.
    to infer they can see what is not there to see IS CRAP.
  • GhurkaGhurka    254 posts
    said:

    said:

    Carey you're wasting your time and breathe trying to mount a logical argument with imbeciles like that, thay have their head so far up their respective arses they wouldn't see daylight for a month.

    I'm through arguing the point with losers who can't compehend a logical factual point of view.

    If they wish to to accept deplorable standards such as this from racing officials then these people get exactly what they deserve and that is abject embarrassment on the national and international stage when the spotlight is firmly on the WA racing scene on one of our biggest race days and WA racing appearing as amateurish as ever.

    yes, you are correct.
    i don't know why i feel so strongly about this because it had absolutely no effect on me(unleUss ws had won, which is unlikely).
    but it's the most absurd decision i have seen in nearly 40 years of racing.
    and the worst thing is that the stewards can do that without even seeing what happened.
    Will this help, it happened in WA.
  • DamienWyerDamienWyer    7,985 posts
    edited November 2011
    I thought this might have died down by now, but I have had people ring me this afternoon on it and this morning at trials, everyone had an opinion, and no two were the same. They were either dismissed or upheld, but the reasoning was different in every single case.

    The one consensus was the vision on hand seems to be lacking in its ability to put matters beyond a reasonable doubt and into no doubt at all that this is what happened. But that requires investment from RWWA or the host club or both. In an age of digital vision, where a Melbourne Cup winner can be declared with a margin that 10 years ago would have been a dead heat, we here in Perth have the technical ability to match that of the early 90's at best, it would appear.

    So if folks want to want to argue, lets argue over something we can change so that in the future this sort of incident doesn't get repeated regularly.
  • joneseejonesee    715 posts
    Carey you are dead right about not being able to see on the vision available who exactly caused the interference ( and thus the protest should not have been upheld ). It was a disgraceful decision and the only thing the stewards did 'right' was to refuse to do an interview after the verdict --- it was and remains an impossibility to justify the reversal.
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