2015 WA Stallion figures

DamienWyer · January 2016

New Stallions (or new to WA)

Snippetson 83

Safeguard 58

Sessions 55

Stallions with a previous crop (in brackets)

Blackfriars 109 (106)

Alfred Nobel 87 (56)

Dick Turpin 76 (66)

Trade Fair 70 (122)

Universal Ruler 67 (127)

Galah 60 (74)

War Chant 58 (88)

Oratorio 56 (49)

My Admiration 56 (81)

Playing God 46 (49)

Patronize 42 (61)

Planet Five 23 (77)

Proart 19 (20)

He's A Decoy 19 (16)

Vital Equine 19 (31)

Smug 19 (42)

So Secret 18 (20)

My Atacanta 15 (15)

Scandal Keeper 13 (35)

Danehill Express 12 (17)

Dash For Cash 11 (46)

Rogano 8 (25)

Viscount 6 (10)

Hala Bek 5 (24)

Demerit - missed season due to injury (30)

figures as at 13 January 2016

DamienWyer · January 2016

Total mares covered (approx) in 2015 - 1110, in 2014 - 1257.

These total numbers may be subject to variance, but not a whole lot. The market has shrunk by 12% in the past season here for WA based stallions according to this snapshot.

Pimlico · January 2016

I'd say a couple of Hunter Valley studs nearly covered more mares than that whole list combined

DamienWyer · January 2016

Well seeing how you ask, here is Coolmore's numbers.

New

Adelaide 93 (-) $22,000

Varrazano 69 (-) $13,750

Rubick 207 (-) $16,500

Returning after absence

Holy Roman Emperor 54 (last here in 2010) $22,000

Stallions with 2014 in brackets

Zoffany 211 (79) $8,800

Fastnet Rock 200 (189) FOA last public fee $275,000

Uncle Mo 172 (103) $16,500

So You Think 163 (161) $49,500

Pierro 139 (220) $77,000

Choisir 123 (158) $29,700

Excelebration 93 (83) $16,500

Declaration Of War 83 (125) $24,750

Total covered for 2105 - 1607 mares so almost 50% more than the entire WA market

paraletic · January 2016

Gee Rubick was value

RIO · January 2016

ouqba 39(42)..seemed to be missing

Tivers · January 2016

Will be a lot of empty mares / late foals on back of covering 207 though...

DamienWyer · January 2016

RIO said:
ouqba 39(42)..seemed to be missing

oops....... there are a few others missing but they haven't returned on the Studbook yet

RIO · January 2016

so that adds up to less than 1200 served??? 85% born means about 1000 foals out of WA for 2yr olds in 2018..

1 out of 10 to the track = 100 to the track
1 out of 10 to win = 10 to win

Wish i had spent my money on buying an east coast bred weanling now!!!!!
:(

Tivers · January 2016

Not sure with you math, but yes - I could win a race soon...
Easy pickings :)

RIO · January 2016

Tivers said:
Not sure with you math, but yes - I could win a race soon...
Easy pickings :)

Well that is what i am hoping for, cos i cant see too many forking out 50-100k to take a chance on an east coast one..then again i may sign them up for westspeed and sell them all as there wont be many around to buy!!!!!

Glad i sent 1 to the leading stallion this season too. May be my big chance to get a nice horse for 2019...you know what i mean, really nice looking big 4 year old..haha

lame · January 2016

Leading the decline or the sires list
;)

paraletic · January 2016

Dash 4 Cash not getting much love. Any reason why? Consider him a decent bread and butter stallion but seems to be on the nose with 11 serves??

paraletic · January 2016

Easter States, Uncle Mo, dont know alot about it either but getting good support. And Zoffany as well.

DamienWyer · January 2016

When you go shopping at next month's MM Sale here in Perth, it is worth keeping in mind those WA figures. Generally speaking, yearlings by stallions that have lost popularity should cost less, and those that have gained should cost more.

The real surprise in those numbers, was Trade Fair. I'm at a loss to understand that drop in popularity with Breeders, as he is a consistent producer who can actually get a better class winner as they get a little older.

DamienWyer · January 2016

Zoffany won five times as a 2yo (incl Listed, Gr 3 & Gr 1) and as a 3yo ran a great second in a Gr 1 to Frankel at Royal Ascot. He was regarded as the fasted of the Dansili's.

Uncle Mo had some huge wins, gaping the opposition. He won all three of his starts as a 2yo, two of them at Gr 1 level by huge margins. He has had 16 runners around the globe for five winners, two of those were Gr 1 winners in the USA. His two starters in Sydney both won.

paraletic · January 2016

Cheers for the info Damo

Thoroly_Bread · January 2016

I officially got rid of my last mare yesterday not that I have a big impact on numbers but there are a lot of big players in the same boat eg. Eddie Rigg, Lex Piper it's almost unviable for a passionate hobby breeder anymore the big farms will rule.

RIO · January 2016

I think Scenic are close to that here already....What was their percentage of WA serves 30-40%???

DamienWyer · January 2016

Around 25% market share Rio

Tivers · January 2016

Got the cattle

Pink_Blue · January 2016

It costs breeders approx and this is a fairly loose approx of $25,000 from day of birth till MM week and when you are selling at $5000, $10,000 or whatever it makes it very tough to see why people still do it, there is love of the sport but then there is bleeding of the bank account.
If you breed to race, then it's a different kettle of fish but breeding to sell in this market... Get me a piece of rope and a ladder...
We have now looked at trying to maintain and then lease out % to try and attract new people as its such a cheap way to get into it.
I know it's not the answer to the terrible market but what else do you do when you have so many to sell??
I expect there will be many arguements for and against and believe me I've heard them all and I do agree with both sides...

RIO · January 2016

Now if it costs on average (i understand the variations) $25k to get to auction, then it costs another $45k to get the animal until it turns 3 years old.

So on average that is about $70k...............and how many at the auction get a return?

I see on order of entry for this years 2yr old MM race that only 10 horses have earned over $10k.

In the 3yr old race its about 50 horse over $10k.

In both years there were more than 300 yearlings sold. Why would anyone not only Breed a horse, but buy a horse???????

On average everyone that tries to race a horse with the intent of breaking even...FAILS...

With money getting really tight - after 3 years of it being tight - i have no idea how you get new people to buy into this industry when the averages suggest you will have a horse that fails and lose money.

Pink_Blue · January 2016

I've got to say Rio, anyone who thinks they are getting into racing to make a profit and win big has seen too many movies. Hence why setting these syndicates up can make it easier with a buy in cost and they get a smaller% of a number of horses so hopefully there is always one thereabouts at the track. In Melb and Syd people sell this as a fun, lifestyle thing and the younger people do enjoy it as its not Soley based on the track with long waiting periods. To be fair, whilst we all dream of group races etc, there is no greater thrill than winning and frankly I couldn't care where it is be it Roebourne, Northam, Ascot or Albany and that feeling right there is what gets us all coming back and when you race with a good group of friends etc it is a lot of fun and fingers crossed won't break the bank... Too badly...

RIO · January 2016

We are going even further with our owners this year and depending on what we buy (or don't buy as I do have a couple of home breeds that we may offer them) we are looking at an even more adventurous program where we fund the buying of the horse and all running cost up to it turning 3 for a fixed monthly payment.

So we are trying to dumb it down - the financial side - and take out the variations which is hard for non horse people to get their heads around. If at the end of the day we come up with a figure of $60/month for every 1% you purchase up to August 2017, we feel it is easier for non-horse people to understand.

And of course that concept is encapsulated in the concept of; get a few friends in and when the horse is racing (even when in Roebourne) get together, have a BBQ and have it as a focus of your day.

I know it works, but at the end of the day, the money has to come from us first so that we can get people to pay us back over 18 months, wit next to now chance of breaking even.......However any collect gets paid out, so they can see a return. It also takes away them having to find 1 or 2k on the fall of the hammer if they are after 1-5%.

Anyway there are many people working and thinking hard as to how they can get new people into the market. I just wish that RWWA would acknowledge this and offer bonus and incentives for this process, rather than keep on bringing out rewards for the winners of city races or dud breeding processes!!!

Could waffle on for ever!!!! But just a waste of space as RWWA funding is incredibly biased and skewered to keeping rich owners and established breeders in the industry ...then paying lip service to getting new people involved.................................ie Owners Own

:(

jum · January 2016

Pink_Blue said:
I've got to say Rio, anyone who thinks they are getting into racing to make a profit and win big has seen too many movies. Hence why setting these syndicates up can make it easier with a buy in cost and they get a smaller% of a number of horses so hopefully there is always one thereabouts at the track. In Melb and Syd people sell this as a fun, lifestyle thing and the younger people do enjoy it as its not Soley based on the track with long waiting periods. To be fair, whilst we all dream of group races etc, there is no greater thrill than winning and frankly I couldn't care where it is be it Roebourne, Northam, Ascot or Albany and that feeling right there is what gets us all coming back and when you race with a good group of friends etc it is a lot of fun and fingers crossed won't break the bank... Too badly...

:\"> Ah The Roebourne Cup

Pink_Blue · January 2016

Rio, that is exactly the idea I had and discussed at lengths with many people and at the end of the day, to register and do all that legally... Guess what, near impossible and RWWA do not make it any easier.
'Owners Only' is a good concept... If it was completely detached from them and only supported, not funded.

For someone like us, who have a silly amount of mares and stallion with the luxury of a property it's not AS bad but in no way would we only be offering our own horses we would also source from east coast dispersal sales with the ready to run element and obviously support WA where ever possible at MM sales...
Why oh why oh bloody why do they make it so hard

RIO · January 2016

Maybe RWWA will eventually get sick of it all and concede that they need to be separated. One integrity and compliance arm that the control and finance. horse racing and infrastructure.... Then Marketing, bonuses, incentives another company. Totally independent and only financed by funds from the industry.......Hang on that sounds like selling off the TAB!!!! I know it isn't that easy.

The "legal" compliance RWWA insists on for anyone to promote racing ownership makes advertising the above impossible. You have to do it underhandedly and forever hope that you don't get questioned too much.

Now RWWA - by their own admission - monitor me closely on this site. So I will only be involved in dealing with my clients, family and friends in the above manner...If we find a suitable horse.

We have been working through it. The handful of people we have discussed it with are wanting to sign up and we don't even know what horse we have!!!! RWWA's dedication to really embracing new owners is a very thin attempt at lip service. The commitment to change of rules and regulations needs to be as strong as the commitment to the changing face of horse ownership.......and it isn't yet. And I hear no comment or indicative speak that suggest it will anytime soon.

Based on history, but the time they adapt to the market needs....the needs would have changed and a great opportunity will be missed...AGAIN

DamienWyer · January 2016

I feel that purchasing horses that will deliver results, is far more important than just introducing more fodder for the cannon. It's better that we breed and sell horses that have the potential to be winners, in that way those who we convince to part with their hard earned money to feed and pay for those horses to be trained, are getting the best possible chance at enjoyment through racetrack success.

Introducing potential new Owners to anything less is just a waste of time and effort. I'm yet to be convinced that the Owners Only Scheme, is nothing more than shop window dressing of little substance of anything more than a pissup at the brewery concept.

RIO · January 2016

Not every horse can be a city winner Damo. Long gone are the days that people buy horses and expect them to win a city race. The do still buy them and dream of winning the Railways or Melbourne Cup, but when you sit them down and discuss the likelihood of that happening....they also put it in the unrealistic dream department...but continue to dream about it.

The goal of ownership these days is to create a social activity that doesn't impact on their lives. is easy to be a apart of, involves no time to organise anything on their behalf and is FUN

If someone is committing $60/month to have an ownership in a horse with 30 other like minded people it is a great add on to their current social life and to meeting other people who enjoy that activity.

It is getting difficult to attract 10% owners, let alone 50% or heavens above, someone as mad as me who has 100% ownership. If you have 40-50 owners on your book who want to buy in excess of 50% of a horse I congratulate and envy you. Most owners these days are under 10% and want to have FUN for not much money....a fixed rate of $60/month for 18 -30 months is a lot easier for new owners to get their heads around it

Tivers · January 2016

Little tip for you..... Regardless of what horses there are - there's still exactly the same number of winners :)

G'day Punter!

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