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Fake Handicapping System

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • getthechangegetthechange    315 posts
    wagin would have been R penalty but were C penalty when MC was introduced
    horses take a HWOE penalty for wins only
    2yos 25%   3yo 75% so it was always part penalty and there were aways caps on the penalties (see attachment)



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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,739 posts
    getthechange said:

    for the last 50 years the winners of feature races have received the same penalty as the winners of non feature race winners whether those races were country cups run in the country or metro races run at GP they took either a C or M penalty. I took horses to non tab tracks like Wyalkatcjhem - trayning etc where the stake money was just over half of what on offer at Pinjarra and the penalty was the same (one assessment or one C penalty)

    The winners at Wagin on Friday received $3178      handicap$ $2,999
    The winners at Pinjarra received               $4993      handicap$ $4,500
    Under MCR there was no differential and they would both have taken a C penalty

    the 'new' limits are not actually new jthey replace the original limits which were




    So what was the point of the change?
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  • getthechangegetthechange    315 posts
    guessing it was because stake levels went up which increased the HWOE win figure which resulted in horses climbing quicker
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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    Just can’t fathom why people would think group races getting only part of the win $ is a bad thing, some of these horses that win and just off the top of my head the oaks winner if she received full penalty might aswell retire her as she walks off the track, imagine saying I had a good horse but unfortunately it won a group 1 so I had to retire it

    getthechange, Browny123, Constantlybroke, PackedMetalPanda likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    Are group 1 winners exempt from using the drop back rule like everyone else?

    Arapaho, curmudgeon likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    edited December 2022
    I would think an Oaks winner returning as a 4 year old next month has plenty of racing opportunities in the Mares FFA's and, if not after 5 starts, back she goes into the $L5 25k races?  But owners choice to retire if that is what they want to do.
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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    3yo comes back as a 4 year old as 100k + hwoe and straight into free for all? Gee lucky you don’t own any good ones I think you’d soon change your tune

    Browny123, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    Those 30k races back when you took full penalty if you were a 25k hwoe horse you can effectively win the less than 40k on a Friday night twice, if you were good enough / lucky enough to win one of those group 3 races you gave up your second less than 40k race so they were kind of pointless to win you were better off running second getting the 5k and then going on to win your less than 40k twice. There’s some incentive to win them now

    Gilgamesh, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,739 posts
    getthechange said:

    guessing it was because stake levels went up which increased the HWOE win figure which resulted in horses climbing quicker




    I was referring to why change from the old system if it is a change in name only.

    curmudgeon, JayJay likes this post.

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  • licklick    307 posts
    Hi, I have been a keen harness fan since birth, and have owned many pacers over many years, including now. I am not dumb as far as I know it , but I can't get my head around any of this current handicapping system.

    I understood age racing, C classes and M classes - but all this new HEOL3 or whatever stuff is beyond me.

    I do know that I dislike preferential barrier draws - may the best horse win.

    Why isn't every FFA a random barrier draw?


    JimmyPop likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    Rocket_Reign said:

    Gee lucky you don’t own any good ones I think you’d soon change your tune

    Lovely finish Mick, hope none of my slow ones get in the way of your rockets, the lanes will soon be free of hindrance.
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  • getthechangegetthechange    315 posts
    getthechange said:

    guessing it was because stake levels went up which increased the HWOE win figure which resulted in horses climbing quicker




    I was referring to why change from the old system if it is a change in name only.
    definition of handicap is a race or contest in which in order to equalise an 
    artificial advantage is given to the supposedly inferior or
    artificial disadvantage is given to the supposedly superior 
    Under MCR Never Ending(superior) would receive 6 handicap concessions and when turning three would be classed equal with the non winning 2yos(inferior) that also turn 3yo
    Never Ending could then win two 3yo races non penalty races and be eligible for a C0 
    horses that dont win as  2yo and 3yo (inferior) receive no concession and on turning 4yo they "graduate" to C0 where they can possibly meet non penalty winners from their own age group or more likely from the winners from the following crop
    All the horses in the golden slipper would have received concessions at the end of the 2yo season and be equal with the non winning horses from the same crop - the opposite of handicap
    unlike MCR HWOE moves all horses up when winning - 2yos take 25% forward see golden slipper attachment for example
    the HWOE part off the system and MCR have similarities but are different
    the L5$ LT races are from the USA
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  • ciscocisco    805 posts
    What a narrow minded comment Rocket_Reign!!
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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    cisco said:

    What a narrow minded comment Rocket_Reign!!




    Thanks for your pointless input.
    Was more pointing out that I bet if he had a horse that won a group one aged race and come back as a straight up Free For All, eg a 3 year old winner in December comes back in January and races Magnificent Storm first up I bet he wouldn’t be happy about it

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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  • ciscocisco    805 posts
    This is not the first time You have had a crack at JayJay.

    Dont concern yourself with my input - concentrate on your own.
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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    cisco said:

    This is not the first time You have had a crack at JayJay.


    Dont concern yourself with my input - concentrate on your own.



    It wasn’t a crack I sincerely meant every word

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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  • RoyboyRoyboy    22 posts
    Rocket I think that anyone that’s been disqualified especially for race fixing! Shouldn’t be commenting what’s right an wrong with Harness Racing .

    Cant_Refuse dislikes this post.

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    Royboy said:

    Rocket I think that anyone that’s been disqualified especially for race fixing! Shouldn’t be commenting what’s right an wrong with Harness Racing .




    Good one champ

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    207 posts
    Anyway,how’s this weather.

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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  • bookieloverbookielover    2,623 posts
    I will have been married 49 years come this Friday. That's what I call poor handicapping ;)

    Rocket_Reign, VillageKid, Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • getthechangegetthechange    315 posts
    sounds like you backed a winner there - good stayers it seems
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  • bookieloverbookielover    2,623 posts
    getthechange said:

    sounds like you backed a winner there - good stayers it seems

    Great anniversary today. We have both tested positive for Covid. :-O
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