Pacing Cup

Chariotsonfire · January 2023

Tabtouch went up $11 Minstrel. Win lose or draw it was the wrong price in my opinion.

In to $4 now.

Gilgamesh · January 2023

Chariotsonfire said:
Tabtouch went up $11 Minstrel. Win lose or draw it was the wrong price in my opinion.

In to $4 now.

Whoever does the prices really has a set on the horse that is forsure.

I've felt for a good month that he has been priced at slightly over what he might be given the worst possible draw where as almost all others had been priced at close to what they would have been with their best possible draw.

It's going to be a really interesting race. I don't know who comes up with Magnificent Storms tactics but they got it hopelessly wrong last start, even pre the eventual gallop it could have gotten across so easily to the moving line in the Freo Cup if they just went forward.

Now a little bit more of its competitive respect has been wiped off, it's not like it's guaranteed Minstrell would just want to sit on it. Personally I think they have to come out with the whip turned and see how far across they can get, go back and it's white flag on its previous performances.

You'd think Minstrell punches out hard, the 11 sticks flat to its back so the 12 can get through to 3 back the pegs, jumping jack Mach is 1,2 so if Aldo grabs that's 1 out 3 back at best without Lavra Joe or anything else chancing their arm. This is likely how I see it playing out though, 2900 bringing out the conservative nature in the driver's.

curmudgeon · January 2023

Gilgamesh said:

Chariotsonfire said:
Tabtouch went up $11 Minstrel. Win lose or draw it was the wrong price in my opinion.

In to $4 now.

Whoever does the prices really has a set on the horse that is forsure.

I've felt for a good month that he has been priced at slightly over what he might be given the worst possible draw where as almost all others had been priced at close to what they would have been with their best possible draw.

It's going to be a really interesting race. I don't know who comes up with Magnificent Storms tactics but they got it hopelessly wrong last start, even pre the eventual gallop it could have gotten across so easily to the moving line in the Freo Cup if they just went forward.

Now a little bit more of its competitive respect has been wiped off, it's not like it's guaranteed Minstrell would just want to sit on it. Personally I think they have to come out with the whip turned and see how far across they can get, go back and it's white flag on its previous performances.

You'd think Minstrell punches out hard, the 11 sticks flat to its back so the 12 can get through to 3 back the pegs, jumping jack Mach is 1,2 so if Aldo grabs that's 1 out 3 back at best without Lavra Joe or anything else chancing their arm. This is likely how I see it playing out though, 2900 bringing out the conservative nature in the driver's.

The horse that would have made the race with his versatility didn't make the cut...Vampiro. He was huge in the breeze last week & would be the perfect bruiser in the breeze this week . Diego has come up with the Hand Of God draw again which makes him awfully hard to toss. Bond team looks to have a welter of options still without Vampiro....but plenty of chances elsewhere. It's a good quality race field & the draws are going to force a few moves in running otherwise the leader gets away with too much.

lick · January 2023

Jnr clear to drive Diego - who would have thought?

Markovina · January 2023

I was going to open a new thread title - but this one - the Pacing Cup has already gone up - thus i will just post it here

But my thread title was going to be " Great Pacing Cup Stories and Memories "

So anything to do with the entire history of the WA Pacing Cup - you know it can go right back to before any of us graced this earth - it can be great horses - drivers - miracle training performances to even get their horse to the start - betting pluges - stake money - iffy drives - anything interesting to do with the WA Pacing Cup - then please post them

Ive got 3 stories - and the 3rd one you should get a good laugh out of - but im going to hold them back - and hopefully plenty of others post their stories and memories of the WA Pacing Cup

PictureSon1973 · January 2023

Always admire someone who tries to garner some enthusiasm Good on you Marko !
I’ll never forget Saab’s Pacing Cup win literally raining Cats & Dogs that night the
rain really highlighted him as a fine specimen of a Standard Bred returning back to
Scale .
Can’t recall the winner but I believe Manuel Kallif having a Huge Seafood Platter on his
stand after a Plunge failed..
For Some reason and I don’t now why other than a gut feeling but JJC seems a
good chance.

PackedMetalPanda · January 2023

Sunshine Band rolling off the pegs and handing the race to Elite Shadow (Helen Luke/Kim Young) only for him to get back over the top late. John Hunt with an amazing call for Elite Shadow on the turn. “All of Pinjarra and Mandurah are screaming!”

Markovina · January 2023

I think another great idea - to drum up a bit of interest for the WA Pacing Cup

Like with the AFL on a weekly basis - one of those Fox Footy shows- if there is a sensational bit of play ending in a goal - they will replay that 5-6 times with different commentators - they can be TV/Radio - anywhere - i find that highly exciting

Now this upcoming Pacing Cup - it does look a very interesting race so what i would do ( like the AFL) i would invite Matt McDermott - Panda- Hayden Craig ( from Albany ) and a 1 off special invitation to John Hunt who was a legendary Trots caller

So they all come to GP - and they all live call the Pacing Cup - so there is an audio recording of their call of theWA Pacing Cup

Thus when you go to the AHR Site for the replays of GP - You can watch the race with 6 different callings of the cup ( including Ritchies etc )

Now as long as it was an exciting race - you know plenty of action - mid race moves - maybe even a bit of push and shove at the bell - and a screamer/bottler finish - then i think it would be fantastic/exciting - that i can watch this race 6 times over with 6 different WA Trots callers - and their individual take on the race etc

I think as long as it was an exciting race( the callers cant control that ) then i think plenty of people would watch all 6 replays - they would find it fascinating

I think it is a Win Win for everyone - sure there is a little bit of pressure on those callers to get it right - however if they are climbing the rungs - like there might be a job calling in Hong Kong or Singapore - and they can say - look here is my call of the WA Pacing Cup

PictureSon1973 · January 2023

Marko bloody good marketing idea if done right as it could be used as a additional tool
in finding individual attributes and nurturing there talent ready for the big leagues.
Would love it if the commentating individuals could give the uneducated punter a
race breakdown not necessarily just sectionals but this horse was checked at the
final 600 metres causing him a estimated 3 Lengths giving a punter a perspective
that may want them to back the horse next time it starts . Doesn’t mean it’ll win but
it has potential in winning or placing .

Gilgamesh · January 2023

R1: It looks to me like Paroquet can just kick its legs up under Our Shelly Beach and just maybe Wait For The Bell can poke up under Paroquet. On this basis i've settled on No10 Eaton Rock. Really disappointing 2 starts back but back in trip last week if it had clear running would have walked in. No real stress if it gets further back on the pegs, Jnr can work it out. Only issue is the price has been knocked off this morning so have to wait for a drift.

R2: I thought No1 Just For Love on a 1win 3place basis was a good way to make some money. Hasn't been beaten far in some smart doing work lately. Looks to get it a lot softer here, kicking through then probably handing up to Nevermindthechaos when she gets there.

R4: The lead looks there for No7 Vampiro, goes like last week he wins.

R5: Riding the overs gods with Mistrell. He just wins.

R6: I liked the return of Rockmeover. There is a silly chance the 1,2,3 bring each other undone. @126/1 I'll have my $5EW Rock.

R7: Something small EW No2 Gee Smith, I think the whole Scott stable has turned a bit of a corner the last month. Soft run on the faves back-hes probably not good enough but the price is right to find out.

I'll tap out there for the metro meeting, past my bedtime anyhow. Something EW Twentynine Twelve Albany R2.

Good luck all.

VillageKid · January 2023

GP

Race 1- Vulcan Star, Eton Rock, Wait For The Bell, Our Shelley Beach

Race 2- Nevermindthechaos, Im Themightylucy, Star Of Diamonds, Just For Love

Race 3- Valentines Brook, Pradason, Mea Culpa, Valbonne

Race 4- Vampiro, Perfect Major, Glenledi Chief, Typhoon Banner

Race 5- Minstrel, Diego, Mighty Ronaldo, Himself

Race 6- Onesmartfella, Mirragon, Walsh, Hengheng

Race 7- James Butt, Dont Bother Me None, Manning, Classic Choice

Race 8- Master Yossi, Rumour Has It, Sunshine Swift, Rebel With A Grin

Race 9- Tenzing Bromac, The Ideal Touch, Socrates, Middlepage

Race 10- Regal Cheval, Shadow Roll, Little Suzie, McArdles Gem

Albany

R1- Alexandra The Great

R2- The Righteous

R3- Rockandrollartist

R4- Sweetdream Trunkey

R5- Pocketful Of Opals

R6- Simply Shaz

R7- Fleur Du Marquis

R8- The Running Camel

Thunderstruck · January 2023

I popped in(its been a while)to see what the thoughts were about Minstrel tonight, my thoughts were he looks the go..probably breezes and hopefully wears down leader Diego, that the likely map?

Did Anyone get a tabtouch "bonus" today?
First time ever that i recall it was bonus cash and not actual cash so the stake is deducted from the return ie 25 on a $3 pop you only get 50 back.

I messaged them on a feedback form to say
"congrats on going over to the dark side of bonus cash for the first time I ever recall, will your superpicks change over to this refund type hence losing any edge you may have had?"

Got a phone call back but didn't answer .. the voice message didn't say superpicks are going that way but TABTOUCH have found the bonus bet functionality, it could just be a matter of time!

Vincent_vega · January 2023

Its a few minutes after the finish of the pacing cup and im still waiting on someone, anyone, to show interest in making it a race? #yawnfest

Markovina · January 2023

Unfortunately - and sometimes it just happens and you cant do much about it - but that Pacing Cup was a carbon copy of the recent Inter dom final at Melton - walked and dashed home - so you had to be up front to have any chance

Vincent_vega · January 2023

A 2,936m yawnathon

curmudgeon · January 2023

Couple of trials to finish the night off

Ivorytrunkey86 · January 2023

Thank god for Corey peterson having a crack in the last,absolute snooze fest tonight,pacing cup was a real let down.

sonny · January 2023

Well done Gilga on Rockmeover... The others were disappointing ,but good selections...Love your work .

Chariotsonfire · January 2023

They did bet the wrong price about Minstrel.

Should have been a zero between the two ones.

Markovina · January 2023

Look it was a terribly dissappointing race - you cant sugar coat it - just like the Inter Dom final at Melton - 2 big races - and both terrible advertisements for trotting

What could you do last night - and where the horses settled - and given the racing characteristics of those horses - you couldnt do anything - re mid race move - it would be futile

The 2 horses who could have done something - where they settled - were Mighty Conquest and Lavro Joe - but the problem with those 2 - they havent got the point to point speed - so it would be futile

The ideal spot was when they had gone just shy of 1 lap -the bend into the back straight - Ritchie Bell said they were walking - ive got no shadow -of doubt if there was an E/States horse in that race - in the market 6-1 to 10-1 and with point to point speed - diven by say Pete McMullen - Robbie Morris - Greg Sugars - Chris Alford - they wouldnt even blink - out theyd come at the point i suggest - and declare G Hall jnr on

Champion reinsman - instantly make decisions - i go way way way back - Kevin Newman - WA born - and then moved to Sydney - and absolutely dominated - stacks of HP - Trainer - Driving- Premierships - he was driving in a Hunter Cup - this would be a touch over 50 years ago - he was driving Mitchell Victory an explosive sit sprint horse. There was a horse called Monaro ( who i dont rate that highly ) - it had won back to back Hunter Cups - going for 3 in a row - brilliant stand horse - and did exactly what Hall did last night - lead - walk - dash home

Going for the 3rd won - straight to the lead again - walking them - K Newman - sitting back 6th to 8th position - he said enough of this crapp - i have to do something - even though he was on a sit sprinter - he declared the leader on and nearly crossed - didnt run anywhere - but he had to chance his arm - and Monaro caved in as well- - and by the way - i havent got record books to check to - im going purely off my memory - hopefully for a bit of interesting discussin

But last night - a terribly dull race - but like i say - where the horses settled and given the racing characteristics of the horses - no one could do anything

curmudgeon · January 2023

curmudgeon said:
Couple of trials to finish the night off

Actually I must apologize to Corey Peterson...I went to bed after the second last completely underwhelmed with the evening.

Watching the replay this morning it was invigorating to see his summation of the race & way he applied pressure using the staying capability of his horse even though the distance was the "sprint trip" 1700m. Drive of the night clearly.

If we want colour & movement out on track then it is obvious that

1. The ability for drivers to use their horses physical characteristics must be promoted.

2.In order to do that then distances are best kept shorter ie for the standardbred the standard has always been a mile. Races of further distance with even fields always require someone to assassinate their own chances during long periods between start & finish.

3.Distance racing should entirely be from stands with handicaps otherwise long periods of absolute static boredom during races follow.

4. Also...the one thing the leader on an 800m track with a sprint lane can't completely control is the horses on the pegs behind them .....but let's not add an element of uncertainty outside of the barrier draw shall we ?

Markovina · January 2023

Re the option of the stand start Curmudge - the authorities did pannick a bit - with that shocking Hunter Cup SS about 8-10 years ago- it was like watching Quinny getting wiped out at the start - and 4-5 of them virtually out of the chance - and distanced

However given how boring that race was last night and the Inter Dom Final was beyond atrocious - thus i would get down on my hands and knees ( and im no SS fan/lover ) and basically beg the authorities to have those 2 races run under Standing Start conditions

Gilgamesh · January 2023

Minstrell-as soon as he pulled out he looked to me to want to get out of his gear-GP corners at high speed are not his friend.

As many have stated we have had some really good racing over the last 6 weeks-certainly the type that I enjoy watching back and doing form on. Last night was putrid-not much to attract back the once a year punter.

PictureSon1973 · January 2023

Would a fair summation of the Pacing Cup be that a pretty much even spread of horses ran to
the best of there ability and the winner had the advantage of the lead .
Sad to say no super stars in that field a true star aka The
MightyQuinn would’ve given that Field Windburn.
How Magnificent Storm started eq Favourite is beyond me when if you look to
prior race replay couldn’t get past JJM and Magnificent Storm had the better run of the
2.
After Pacing Cup performances should be no end of E.State horses coming for the $1 mil
race.

TheSwooper · January 2023

I'll put my hand up as I am firmly in the camp of a once a year punter. We get together each year as a group and book into the Beau Rivage for the Pacing Cup. There were 17 of us this time around.

Had a great night. I thought the theme worked well as there was always something to keep you occupied, They certainly needed that as from the racing side of the things, it was dead set plain. We all felt the same but will be back next year as one can never beat good company.

Markovina · January 2023

Like Chariots has correctly pointed out a couple of times - quite often to get a super exciting high profile race - you need someone to basically slaughter their horse and its chances

Im all for early or mid race moves - but you have to have the right horse - with point to point speed - and the circumstances have to fit - where your positioned - and they are going borderline /pedestrian up front

The years fly by - so may be it was 12-15 years ago - but at GP - it was the big 4-5 year old 200k race - what the Golden Nugget race

Montego Bay ( i think that was the horse ) it won- a Victorian pacer - trained by Grant Crane - the son of Gary ( a multiple Carlton Premiership player ) - and driven by the ice man Gavin Lang - it was a real sit sprinter that horse

It was a highly exciting race - and Montego Bay came with a blistering sprint - 4 and 5 wide to get up and win

But that only happened because there was a Sydney horse which i was very familar with - but i have forgotten its name - Bruce Wood trained it - pink and maroon colours from memory - it was a decent horse - and from memory 1.5- 2 laps he took off - totally futile - didnt have the speed - but he just bored into the front 2 - i dont think he even got the breeze - but him doing that - basically slaughtering his chances - created the exciting finale

Be interesting if someone could put up a replay of that race - its well worth a watch - and it would certainly wake everyone up from their slumber - after Friday nights 1000% borefest

Arapaho · January 2023

Manifold Bay, i think is the horse your talking about Marko, pretty good field that year think, The Falcon Strike was in that race.

savethegame · January 2023

Glad to see Jay Jay back posting --- as time goes by you start to second guess your memory . Jay Jay can give you 5ml of correctness.
Can remember Pacing Cup 72 FRK. Drove Local product, his father which turned out to be his last drive Drove the winner James Eden.

Did he not forefill his remaining
engagement that night to retire with his last drive being the Pacing Cup winner.
Plus just checked horse called Icarian sure he was bolting in 91 Pacing Cup behind the leader in a red hot field hit a wheel on point of bend?

JayJay · January 2023

Some mixed metaphors here Marko....Manifold Bay is definitely the horse, won the Derby over here, came back and won the Nugget from The Falcon Strike, Astra Nom Mccool, Hy Commissioner, Knightwatchman, Lombo Redback, Imagreektoo, Disco Force, Fully Loaded, General Cam, Magic Walton and Smartest Remark (pulled up). No horse trained by Bruce wood in that race.

Correct on all fronts re Kersley Snr. Local Product unfortunately got caught facing the breeze, James Eden fortuitously lobbed one out one back. The result was a "fairy tale ending"??

Icarian was a horse shrouded in "mystery"....the 91 Cup was the one that Westburn Grant Grant won by about 30m (His first one). Amendment was leaders back and Sinbad Bay came around and breezed, Icarian was a long way back on the pegs (2nd last) but when they all came wide to make (futile) runs, Icarian got a dream run up the inside to be on Westburn Grants back turning for home. when being pulled out, he hit a wheel and broke. At that point, Vic took the hand brake off and gapped them. My opinion Icarian would not have challenged the great Spot but we will never know. He had a lot of SDVC that horse, a lot, and he allegedly bled about 4 times but raced for a long time. Moderate success. I was at Katanning one night with my friend from Den Helder and Icarian ran 2nd down there. Hard horse to follow, he never won anything of note. Always remembered him as he was by a stallion called Shicker which no one had ever heard of, and still haven't. Aside from Icarian, Shicker's only other decent horse was the champion Dillon Dean, the best 3 year old in NZ in the mid 80's, won everything in his 3 year old year.

JayJay · January 2023

Should have mentioned it was old Fred's first win in a WA Cup. Audio of Treveor Jenkins call of the race.

Best I can do.

Markovina · January 2023

JayJay said:
Some mixed metaphors here Marko....Manifold Bay is definitely the horse, won the Derby over here, came back and won the Nugget from The Falcon Strike, Astra Nom Mccool, Hy Commissioner, Knightwatchman, Lombo Redback, Imagreektoo, Disco Force, Fully Loaded, General Cam, Magic Walton and Smartest Remark (pulled up). No horse trained by Bruce wood in that race.

Correct on all fronts re Kersley Snr. Local Product unfortunately got caught facing the breeze, James Eden fortuitously lobbed one out one back. The result was a "fairy tale ending"??

Icarian was a horse shrouded in "mystery"....the 91 Cup was the one that Westburn Grant Grant won by about 30m (His first one). Amendment was leaders back and Sinbad Bay came around and breezed, Icarian was a long way back on the pegs (2nd last) but when they all came wide to make (futile) runs, Icarian got a dream run up the inside to be on Westburn Grants back turning for home. when being pulled out, he hit a wheel and broke. At that point, Vic took the hand brake off and gapped them. My opinion Icarian would not have challenged the great Spot but we will never know. He had a lot of SDVC that horse, a lot, and he allegedly bled about 4 times but raced for a long time. Moderate success. I was at Katanning one night with my friend from Den Helder and Icarian ran 2nd down there. Hard horse to follow, he never won anything of note. Always remembered him as he was by a stallion called Shicker which no one had ever heard of, and still haven't. Aside from Icarian, Shicker's only other decent horse was the champion Dillon Dean, the best 3 year old in NZ in the mid 80's, won everything in his 3 year old year.

Well i might have the guys name wrong - but in one of those big races that Manifold Bay won over here - the one where he came from well back and out wide to win - unless my memory is going - i thought a Syd/HP horse made a midrace move - clapped the pace on and that enabled MB to come with the big sprint and win

If the 2 videos of MB wins over here - are loaded here for viewing - i will be convinced then it didnt happen - and everyone will be a winer - because those 2 videos will certainly be worth watching

G'day Punter!

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