Frost Giant vs Dick Turpin

CPL · August 2013

Yes two very differnt stallions from different parts of the world, one with horses racing and one without but what they do have in common is that they are both here in WA and both standing for around the same fee and there both unproven to our mares so 'who looks like the better value and which one looks the better punt for our gene pool ?

lame · August 2013

haven't really had a close look but i think Frost Giant stats read 80% winners to runners and i think 27% stakes winners . but then there's always the lasix argument
Dick Turpin served some nice mare's in the NH

TheFunkster · August 2013

Better value - probably neither in most instances, lol - at their asking prices.

I can't see either throwing too many 2yo types (not that it bothers me) except maybe where speed mares are sent to them. To me both look better chances of siring 3 & 4yo mile+ horses.

I am seriously considering Frost Giant for next year (already booked in to Henny Hughes this year), but that decision is largely based on the pedigree match. She is a speed mare so we are some chance of getting an early 3yo. Given the right mare i'd look at DT, but i wouldn't go near either of them at the asking prices. $5k for both looks about the right price IMHO. I wish i had a mare that matched up well with Hala Bek. He's my smokey to emerge as a good sire. I've liked what i've seen of the handful of his progeny i've seen so far.

DamienWyer · August 2013

I've booked two into Dick Turpin on behalf of clients. I would highly recommend him both on his race performance and conformation, as well as his pedigree. I believe he will be a Sire of 3YO's and upwards racing past a mile.

Theodor · September 2013

Frost Giant had 4 individual new winners last weekend. On an AEI basis now 2nd best rated stallion globally for oldest runners being 3 year olds. Makes the likes of Northern Meteor and Sebring look like hacks. I obviously have a personal interest in the stallion but if you want to go to a super prospect, have a look at Frost Giant.

coastalchill · September 2013

Frost Giant seems to have better stats than anything else in W.A. and I don't have a personal interest in him.Just facts..

scenic11 · September 2013

Theodor said:
Frost Giant had 4 individual new winners last weekend. On an AEI basis now 2nd best rated stallion globally for oldest runners being 3 year olds. Makes the likes of Northern Meteor and Sebring look like hacks. I obviously have a personal interest in the stallion but if you want to go to a super prospect, have a look at Frost Giant.

Big call Theodore, "makes the likes of Northern Meteor and Sebring look like hacks".

Northern Meteors and Sebrings have raced in the best of G1 company.

I hope Frost Giant can live up to your huge expectations. Anything less will be a disappointment.

RIO · September 2013

Is that anything less than huge expectations by Theodore of aything he has an interest in would be dissapointing OR if Frost Giant doesn't produce G1 runners it'd be dissapointing as a stalion?? :D ;))

Tivers · September 2013

Congrats Theo on your big wins yesterday....................

;)

Theodor · September 2013

Cheers Tivers. Very unexpected but you need some luck and positive surprises given the disappointments one endures in this game.

For Scenic11's and RIO's benefit Frost Giant has some 27% stakes performers to runners and average earnings of about US$50k per runner and his oldest are only 3. Further he only served rubbish mares in his first couple of seasons. Yep he has big expectations on him. One must remember Frost Giant himself only reached his potential at 5 when he set a world record for 2,000 metres winning a Group 1. A bit like Dick Turpin one expects the progeny of Frost Giant to not peak until at least 3. It's a bit frightening if that is the case given the awesome job he has done to date. In relation to Dick Turpin I have sent a mare to him this week. He was a very good race horse with an interesting pedigree. Lots hope he can make it as we will all benefit by having a new top stallion. We are all chasing a Metal Storm.

RIO · September 2013

oh your such a big cuddly teddy bear Theo, cant help but just want to give you a big man hug!!!! :-) i like the look of both of them and have actually expressed an interest in a 6hr old Dick Turpin - something i thought was only done by people who don't have a brain!!!

Just having a dig at how you love to talk things up....we all have to, but you are a unique beast who does it in such a blinkered way it nearly makes a person hope that you fail just cos of how you go about it..but most of us know that your heart is in the right place..

So here goes..i hope Frost Giant is the next Danehill or maybe even better!!!! Anyone who invests in this industry gets my vote for deserving success..Whether breeder, owner, trainer, jockey, or punter..Cos we all know the hard facts about how many of us succeed.
.

DamienWyer · September 2013

Northern Meteor has had 26 individual winners and it is not even October of his second crop ! He has had 5 individual stakes winners. So with the greatest of respect, Frost Giant has to produce that in the same marketplace, being on the East Coast of Australia. As for thinking he may be a hack, the only thing that will slow down his numbers is his untimely death, which could become one of the single greatest losses to the Australian Breeding Industry in the last couple of decades.

Sebring is not that far behind with 4 stakes winners and 23 individual winners in the same time frame.

Both Stallions are so incredibly commercial, by comparison to your yet to be sales ring tested in Australia, Frost Giant, makes his task immeasurably difficult to be competitive. I hope your Stallion is commercially successful, but here is something for nothing, I'm going to be chasing offspring of the other two next buying season hoping that I have enough financial resources to get the very best of theirs.

IntoIt · September 2013

Gee Damien i was going to say you had no sense of humour re your assessment of FG,mind you it is no laughing matter when it comes to breeding and the money that is spent, but i trust you have very deep pockets or a great backer if you are going to buy the very best of NM or Sebring. LOL. Might have missed the boat i think!

scenic11 · September 2013

Damien Wyer said:
Northern Meteor has had 26 individual winners and it is not even October of his second crop ! He has had 5 individual stakes winners. So with the greatest of respect, Frost Giant has to produce that in the same marketplace, being on the East Coast of Australia. As for thinking he may be a hack, the only thing that will slow down his numbers is his untimely death, which could become one of the single greatest losses to the Australian Breeding Industry in the last couple of decades.

Sebring is not that far behind with 4 stakes winners and 23 individual winners in the same time frame.

Both Stallions are so incredibly commercial, by comparison to your yet to be sales ring tested in Australia, Frost Giant, makes his task immeasurably difficult to be competitive. I hope your Stallion is commercially successful, but here is something for nothing, I'm going to be chasing offspring of the other two next buying season hoping that I have enough financial resources to get the very best of theirs.

Couldn't agree more with you Damien.

It will take an outstanding stallion to make Northern Meteor and Sebring look like hacks.

DamienWyer · September 2013

Into It said:
Gee Damien i was going to say you had no sense of humour re your assessment of FG,mind you it is no laughing matter when it comes to breeding and the money that is spent, but i trust you have very deep pockets or a great backer if you are going to buy the very best of NM or Sebring. LOL. Might have missed the boat i think!

Well it may mean that I don't buy locally here in Perth, but in the last couple of years on behalf of my major client, I have spent considerable money and certainly enough to buy a nice yearling in the majors next year. But six months is an awful long time in horse business, the entire World could have changed by then.

Tivers · September 2013

How dare Ed pour his heart, his sole, 90% of the balance of his bank account, and all the passion he can muster in to this industry.................

Shout him down I say !!!

IntoIt · September 2013

Looking at NMs page Smart Missile might be a "cheap" way of getting into the family as he is out of a half to NM. And Sebrings second dam is the dam of Surtee.

Pandora · September 2013

I hope both are huge successes, good for everyone.

scenic11 · September 2013

Tivers said:
How dare Ed pour his heart, his sole, 90% of the balance of his bank account, and all the passion he can muster in to this industry.................

Shout him down I say !!!

Quite the contrary it is great to see Ed pour the passion into this industry, but making ridiculous statements is not necessary. You can pump up your own stallion without trying to drag others down.

Tivers · September 2013

Fair point.

Pull your head in Theo..................

Theodor · September 2013

Bugger, I forgot that facts are not allowed. I outlined facts, nothing more. Hey Tivers, why stop at 90% of my bank balance. I am a complete moron for what a commit to this industry. But you only live once. At least I am not one of the negative goons who frequent this site. Yep, will get plenty of bites from the goons, but hey, had a couple of beers and don't give a sh1t.

Theodor · September 2013

And back to the thread. Dick Turpin and Frost Giant are both exciting stallion prospects and it would be great for mare owners to support them. You hope that one will become the next Metal Storm. Sorry, being too positive! Eddie Rigg and Ron Sayers are disgraceful for bringing FF to WA and wtf was Gray thinking about when he bought a ripping Group performer like Dick Turpin down under.

RIO · September 2013

just signing off so really tempted to bait you Theo, and it doesn't take much.........
:D ;)

DamienWyer · September 2013

Eddie I will give you this. Frost Giant is just about the highest rated horse I have come across using a breeding analysis that I refer to for all my purchases and breeding decisions when deciding the merits of going to have a look at a horse. In a possible 16 scoring opportunities, he scores in all. That just doesn't happen.

If I come across a yearling for sale that would get close to his scores, I would buy it.

Thoroly_Bread · September 2013

What is ed and Eddie is that some sort of slang? Anyway Frost Giant and Dick Turpin are goats the only good bull in WA is Husson Lightning.

CPL · September 2013

As a breeder i had one concern when i looked at the Yarradale website and that was the deals advertised to mare owners.

As everyone expects a stud wants the best possible mares for there stallion and the deals shown are structed to favour and attracked those mare owners so the way i feel about it is that the little guy has to pay more for his beloved mare to be served by your stallions and the guy with the top mare pays less so it turned me off considerably when chooseing a stallion this year.

Its not a money issue but a bad feeling about supporting a farm with mares that look at people (mare owners) not as equals but the oppersite.

If FG was over east hed be 5500 or at worst 7700 just my opinion.

DamienWyer · September 2013

Thoroly_Bread said:
What is ed and Eddie is that some sort of slang? Anyway Frost Giant and Dick Turpin are goats the only good bull in WA is Husson Lightning.

Eddie Rigg, Perth Racing committee member and shareholder in several stallions, is Theodore on here.

DamienWyer · September 2013

CPL said:
As a breeder i had one concern when i looked at the Yarradale website and that was the deals advertised to mare owners.

As everyone expects a stud wants the best possible mares for there stallion and the deals shown are structed to favour and attracked those mare owners so the way i feel about it is that the little guy has to pay more for his beloved mare to be served by your stallions and the guy with the top mare pays less so it turned me off considerably when chooseing a stallion this year.

Its not a money issue but a bad feeling about supporting a farm with mares that look at people (mare owners) not as equals but the oppersite.

If FG was over east hed be 5500 or at worst 7700 just my opinion.

I have a completely different understanding of the deals on offer at Yarradale. I actually believe them to be very transparent, and most Breeders would be able to understand the offers made to higher performing mares be it on the racetrack or as broodmares, and the reasons behind those offers being made.

By comparison, most Studs offer the same blind discount off their advertised retail price, failing to market to those with black type winners or producers what additional discounts will be given if at all.

TheFunkster · September 2013

CPL said:
As a breeder i had one concern when i looked at the Yarradale website and that was the deals advertised to mare owners.

As everyone expects a stud wants the best possible mares for there stallion and the deals shown are structed to favour and attracked those mare owners so the way i feel about it is that the little guy has to pay more for his beloved mare to be served by your stallions and the guy with the top mare pays less so it turned me off considerably when chooseing a stallion this year.

Its not a money issue but a bad feeling about supporting a farm with mares that look at people (mare owners) not as equals but the oppersite.

If FG was over east hed be 5500 or at worst 7700 just my opinion.

Yep, I went to Henny Hughes this year for less than the "discounted price" for Frost Giant. HH has thrown the best 3yo in the entire US this year (not just NY state). Both Storm Cat line stallions but it was an easy decision for me.

darkshines · October 2013

So who ended up sending one to Froat Giant?

Theodor · October 2013

We are supporting FG as one would expect. Some of the mares we are sending include: Miss Vinnoire, Snug Buggles, Pillow Time, Sky Drama, Steely Gaze, Parole (dam of Offenders etc) and 3 other stakes performers acquired overseas. All are stakes performer or produced stakes performers except Pillow Time, and she won +$200k and is a maiden mare. So he should have few excuses. The American owners are delighted with the quality of mares that have gone to FG. The mares that went to him in his first 3 years in the States were very ordinary.

G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

Frost Giant vs Dick Turpin

Comments