Top 50 Western Australian Pacers of All TimeHarness & Greyhounds

JayJay

Cheers, Matt .....thats right, the penny has now dropped. Thank you.

G-Mac

matt said:

Ian Davie had the Pharmacy on North Lake road

Most trainers are pharmacists aren't they?

Sorry, just had to. Can't ignore low hanging fruit. It's OK JayJay, I've sent myself to the sin bin. Carry on.

VillageKid

JJ just out of interest do you know by any chance whether there were ever any major totting stables located on or near Gloucester Park or Richmond Raceway for that matter similar to the Ascot, Flemington, Caulfield, Randwick, Warwick farm set ups?

Ridersonthestorm33

JJ also don't know if you have covered this but as a youngster a name that I often saw in the newspapers was Sangalli. I think Ray was one seemed to be a Sangalli everywhere driving at country and city meetings. Could have been a Bob ? Are they still involved in the game ? They must have a great history with trotting in WA. They did have quite a few battlers when I was growing up. But it was a name that I saw often.

JayJay

VK, the origin of stables is linked way back to when there were a lot of private tracks around Perth. The suburb of Belmont was rural, home to the famous Belmont Stud Farm in the late 1890/1900's and I think the very first organised trotting races were held at Belmont Park Race course (and at the Claremont Showgrounds) before moving to the WACA. There were private tracks all over the place....Bicton, Cannington and so on....and the location of stables is tied up with where the track was. It took ages to build "Brennan Park" (subsequently Gloucester Park) from the time they acquired the land off the WACA (and bought up adjoining blocks in Waterloo Crescent) and I  think J.P. Stratton provided a personal guarantee after price over runs threatened everything.....The track finall opening in 1930.  GP was the site of the old Perth Tip and building the track was far more expensive than first mooted (fast forward to Perth Stadium at Burswood and let's see what the final cost over run will be there????). So the short answer, sorry for the waffle, is yes. Richmond Park started up in 1928 and there were stables all around Fremantle. The trainers from Cannington would drive their horses in convoy, complete with Hurricane Lamps hanging off the carts, over the Causeway to the Trots and then drive them home again along with a convivial nip of scotch to keep out the cold ....happened until well after World War II ended....and like wise from Balcatta or where ever else conglomerates of horse trainers gathered in the then "outer suburbs". Pop Johnson of course was based at Hamilton Hill, Norm Crossman, track curator at Richmond and trainer of the very handy Yerilla Court, had his stables in the back straight at the course, literally a stones throw from East Fremantle Football Oval, Phil Coulson had stables in Hope Valley in between his move from Herdsmans Parade out to Baldivis,  Cliff Clarke and the Kersleys at James Street in Cannington (Greg Harper moved in after Fred went to Forrestdale, which is now also a Housing estate.....Geez, it was the back of beyond when FRK shifted there) ....There were a lot of Cannington based trainers using the old show grounds which of course became the Grey hound track . Around GP, there were stables everywhere. Frank Harold, from City Milling which was an iconic Produce Company smack bang in the middle of Northbridge (Fitzgerald Street), might have had the last Nile Street Stable with his trainer Phil Bonser and John Sullivan, the aforementioned market pincher and tipster who lived in Nile Street, had a stable behind his house. Alby Mollett had his Blacksmith Shop in Leederville for eons, can you imagine a string of Standardbredds plodding along Oxford Street to get shod or a similar sight along Albany Highway/Carousal Shopping Centre to head to Alby Harmans, Laurie Robbies or Bob Tomlinsons ....all based in Station Street Cannington....to get shod nowadays??? They call it progress, I am not so sure these days.

JayJay

Riders, there are still Sangalli's involved nowadays but the two you are talking about are brothers Bob and Tony.
Tony was a league footballer with Swan Districts and that place has been a hotbed of interest in the trots for decades. Its almost written into the constitution. Bonny Sweetapple, Alf Charleson, Gartrell, Slater, Percy, Max George,Justin Pitt....even to the modern day with current coach Greg Harding. Crikey, even Toddy used to drive in those silly but entertaining exhibition races against Big (Very Big!!) Bad Mal brown and Ron Alexander. Tony teamed up with Alf Charleson in predictable black and white colours and they were pretty successfull. Best horse was possibly Tony Hall who won a Brennan Cup in 1968, ran 2nd to Blue Pennant in the 1967 version and was 3rd to Peter Patrick in the 68 Freo Cup. Tony injured his back in a bad race fall and never did much after that and was unable to drive.  I recall one of his good horses at the time, Extra Sly, ended up winning quite a few races when he was with Phil out at Herdsman Parade.
Bob, who for some reason I recall had colours of grey, green and red with maltese cross, had a couple of very good horses. Jidaley was an excellent juvenile who won the Champagne Classic in 1971 but his best horse by far was the exciting but sometimes erratic little speed machine Durante. He used to race in a white shadow roll and was hopeless from the stand if I remember correctly but he won a Mt Eden Mile in 1974 running 1.58.6 when he beat Wee Cent and Miss Dundee. He was 2nd to Forbes Adios (Bernie Cushing) in the 1973 Brennan Cup and contetsed the Inters in 1973 at Harold Park, running 2nd to Manaroa in a heat. He was quite electrifying at his best...flashy and fast.  I remember Bob also had a bad race smash, losing an ear in the process. In what was a ground breaking medical advance at the time, the errant ear was collected off the track, cleaned up and sowed back under his skin so that the tissue didn't die, until they could operate and re attach it. It didn't work.
Bob was heavily involved in the horse export business to the USA and never had a big stable. He used to buy proven horses who had reached their mark and would sometimes train them for a while before shipping them off to the states. Tony was probably the better driver of the two, Bob was a bit of a firebrand. I am assuming the current crop of Sangalli's are related to Tony and Bob.

VillageKid

JJ being a Swan Districts man myself you are dead right in the long association we have had with the trots which I might add continues today with the likes of current day trainer/drivers Michael George & Robbie Williams who both played at the club and who both's respective fathers did as well as well as having played in the AFL.

Our current League coach Greg Harding & our current Colts coach Trent Cooper are also involved in the local trotting scene.

I believe former trotting reporter the late Arthur Thornton also played League footy at Swans.

Back on track to the reminiscing I was miles off in regards to Ian Davie/Flying Heel-Spur it was actually Velvet Heel I was thinking of when it came to me today! 

:\">

JayJay

Yep good ol Mushroom played for Swans.
Greg's wife is Ross Coopers daughter.

Velvet Heel wasn't much good either. Stick with Flying Heel, he was a champ haha.

Chariotsonfire

The trots and Swan Districts have had a long association.

Fred Castledine (premiership player and coach) trained and drove long before he rose to fame as the trainer of Perth Cup winner Meliador.

Mick Cooper Snr, father of life members Mick and John Cooper was a hobby trainer who won a race with Warren Lad when the Queen attended Gloucester Park in the 1950s and also trained and drove Billy Collette to 3rd in the WA Pacing Cup behind Jackie Scott (Harry Miller) and Taxi Boy (Phil Coulson). Chelsey Harding is Mick Cooper Snr's grand daughter.

VillageKid

Is Sam Torre on your hitlist JJ? He seems to have been around forever and I saw he just trained a long shot in the 1st at Northam tonight. 

JayJay

No, he wasn't but he should be. Has been a perennial producer of youngsters for decades......he popped into my radar when I came across Arch Rival when researching Prince of Princes. Will certainly follow him up. Having been recalled to the workforce the last few weeks .....against my better judgement just to help out in the fire emergency down here and time has been tight but Sam should make  for an interesting read.

AndrewCarter

Lincolnism said:

Andrew Carter said:

 Lincoln if Harper is racing biggest problem then racing is cruising, Greg would be the first to admit he was his own worst enemy but he isn't public enemy no.1 either, as so many like to make out. As a matter of fact the only reason why he got so offside with officialdom in racing in the first place was that he would refuse to tip certain high ranking officials and committeeman and that just wasn't done.

Come on Andrew, thats a bit precious. I merely added some balance to what has otherwise been a love fest. I didn't go thru his record with a fine tooth comb or make any accusations. In fact I didn't even offer an opinion.
Public Enemy No. 1/racings biggest problem......theyre your words not mine.
Typical journo.

You are a typical ex steward or administrator Lincolnism, (hiding your identity and probably failed at everything you ever did) so you decided to become one of those "eminently" qualified people who laughably supposedly control the industry.
You can get back on your high horse when the current principal investigator is sacked and publicly exposed for all his wrong doings over the years and RWWA is thoroughly cleaned out and a number of  competent people are employed on ability rather than just on the basis of industry longevity and having never rocked the boat in any of the three codes, that's the industry biggest problem.
As for Harper you have very little
idea other than what you have heard, I worked for the guy and saw
everything and learned a lot from him about how hard the people in
the industry work and he respected me for being prepared to get my hands
dirty and wanting to learn about the industry from the ground up, not your
typical journo by any means certainly not your typical west journo
that's for sure.
He also helped a lot of people behind the scenes, no angel Greg that's for sure and he did quite a few things I didn't and don't agree with but the industry would be far better off with people like him licensed than unlicensed, at least you control them then, now you have zero control over them, that clever, real clever, not. Murderers get less time and if he went East he would get relicensed immediately but he doesn't want to go the eastern states and nor should he have to either.
Thanks by the the way for letting your bias and vitriol ruin an otherwise great thread, the last thing I want to be doing is defending Greg Harper but I'm not going to let complete and utter bullshiit slide either.

Chariotsonfire

I will endeavour to get the thread back on an even keel.

I was going to say how refreshing it has been to see over 400 informative posts reminiscing on the past without people resorting to personal attacks on each other but Andrew quickly brought it crashing down to his level. Not that I feel a need to defend Lincolnism but he did identify himself and his history in the industry.

JayJay your referred to Gleaming and I can distinctly remember it landing a plunge (in the back and pink colours I think when backed from 20/1 to 5/2 when driven by Phil Coulson.

There would have been 20-24 bookmakers in that era so the takeout would have been considerable.

AndrewCarter

Oh I bought it down did I, what a joke, go back and read what he said in the first place.

As for my reputation genius it's farking spotless mate despite all efforts to the contrary from a variety of worthless pieces of human waste over the years purely because I actually tell the truth and have given favourable publicity at times when deserved to so called "undesirables" and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know me or my character or a single thing about me.
If any one of my contacts or associates or friends got that sort of positive they would get what they deserved.

Actually he would be relicenced,Corstens and co. all of them are constantly relicenced once their time is up, more lies and misinformation deliberate or otherwise, what a surprise.

AndrewCarter

Anyway mate I've said my piece you choose to can to believe whatever fairy tales you like, me I just want to read about great horses and have far better things to do with with my time than to put up with this sort of unadulterated crap.

G-Mac

Does anyone at the Sunday Times read this forum?

Perth is a small town Andrew.

JayJay

Chariots, you are correct with the Gleaming plunge (1978) but it wasn't the Black and Pink colours, it was the famous Gold with Blue braces haha. Gleaming had been in great form having won a heat of the Easter Handicap before being KO'd in the final and Jack and his wife had booked a trip to Europe, so we asked Phil if he would like to train her and he said he would "be delighted". We were not so silly to think he might not improve her and thought it worth a try.  So, I took her down to Herdsman Parade in race trim and left her with him. About 4 weeks passed by and I phoned to check on her progress...."Just taking my time with her, don't worry" was the reply. She went around in a few reinsman's school trials for Robert Imms, his stablehand at the time, and finally, after about 6 weeks, she was nominated and drew outside of the back line (10) in a 2.18 and better mobile. Prepost, she was 25/1 and on arrival at the course, the plot thickened. A masterful plunge into 5/2 still saw her at 8/1 on the tote just before they jumped and I grabbed a piece of that as well. A Phil Coulson masterclass followed as she sat 1 out, 3 back before sweeping to the lead off the back straight and won easily by 3 or 4 lengths. The take out was in excess of $50k from a healthy betting ring of, as you say, 25 plus bookies and she still paid 7's on the tote or there abouts. It was the biggest go I have ever been associated with before or since. No bells or whistles, just a well executed go with a few stable "associates" looking very pleased with themselves at the Sunday morning stable cup of tea down at the Lake. They should never have bet 25's about her as her form was good, she was trained and driven by the Master and she was always very underated. He next start was from 40m behind, flying home to run 4th and then she started in the 4YO Triple Crown for mares and sat parked outside Boobiana and cruised home, this time as an even money favourite. Then it was time for a spell and home she came. People though that was the end of her but Jack came home from Europe, and she continued on. She won 3 in a row over Christmas ...Dec 8th, Dec 26th and Dec 29th with Phil driving her each time. He used to get out of the cart and say "Terrific boys, whatever you are doing, keep doing it, I can't fault her". He was great like that, always encouraging and grateful for the drives and she used to travel for him on a piece of cotton. Those wins put her on a 2.13 assessment and in against the big hitters.  We carried on with her and she ran a great race running 5th for Woody in the '80 Freo Cup behind Steelo (I think) and the decision was made, off to the breeding barn. There was no point in breaking her heart running against obviously better competition and she had provided great enjoyment and a good return on a $1k purchase price. And there was more to come as her 2nd foal was Lady Be Cool who was even better than her Mum.

JayJay

I won't say anything about AC's vitriolic personal vindictive outburst other than I appreciate greatly all the positive contributions that others have made to keep this thread going. Such a shame, so much to offer but so reactionary it is scary.
Have been busy at work this week and will get onto Sam Torre and the almost legendary J.J. Moore over the weekend. I was working in Northam when Jesse unearthed Nixon Adios and can fill in his background with ease. Saw Jesse play footy as well.....a terrifying sight as he used to storm through half back for Northam Railways and no-one, I mean no-one got in his way. A butcher slaughterman by trade and a big bloke but a genius with young horses.

G-Mac

Is Sam Torre of the butcher family? Had a butchery acroos the road from the Hyde Park Hotel?

AndrewCarter

Fortunately I'm judged on the quality of my work by good and decent people who are a pleasure to work with, not what some braindead petty simpleton's on here think or believe. That was in no way referring to you Gmac as a simpleton, this is one job that the powers that be here in WA can't have any influence over and they would be filthy about that.

grandstandjockeys

andrew why didnt you do a big story on linda britton getting suspended or was you to scared

JayJay

Ignoring distractions, let's have a look at J.J.Moore shall we?
Jesse is a Northam institution but the Moore legacy started many decades ago. Mum and Dad, Jack and Dulcie Moore, had trotters and Jack was the track curator at Burwood Park for literally decades. In fact, when racing resumed at the current location in Northam in 1960, having previously been held at both the Northam Race Course and Jubilee Oval (now the showgrounds on Great Eastern Highway), old Jack carted the logs from Wundowie (which were cut by another trotting stalwart, Fred McNamara) that were used to construct the original stabling area, now replaced by a modern under cover facility. Jesse was roped into that work as a kid and the family lived and breathed the Northam Trotting Club. I went to work in Northam about 1974 and Jesse and others (R.L. (Les) Williams and sons) were basically dominating the North Eastern Districts non TABs with occasional successful forays to the city. Then, along came Nixon Adios, a striking colt by Adios Express co owned by Cookernup Dairy Farmer, the amiable Harold Rice. Jesse had a powerful presence - he was a slaughterman/butcher and later, chief buyer for Roediger Brothers Butchers in Northam and as stated before, a fearsome presence as Centre Half Back for the Northam Railways Football Club. I became a member (and later a committeman) and used to help out at the Sunday Night Trials, keeping times or whatever had to be done. They were pretty pedestrian in those days and anything that ran a mile rate of around 2.12 you would put in your black book to have something on at Trayning or Kellerberrin the next week. There were a few 2 year olds but not many. One Sunday night, this unraced 2YO flew around running about 2.7 or 2.8, unheard of and boy, did he look the goods.Word flew around the town that Jesse had unearthed a goodun!! And so it proved to be.From memory, he won first up in a 2YO in Northam and then went to Perth and repeated the dose. Gary Liileyman drove him to win the Champagne Classic and so the juggernaut of Jesse Moore and success had begun. He was transferred to Fred Kersley, also a committeman of NTC who never missed a meeting, a story in itself. Fred was complaining about programming at Northam, feisty and long serving President Frank Collins said stop bitching, come onto the committee and Fred did....and served for mamy years. Nixon went on to win the Derby in 1976 and a host of other quality races and ran 2nd to Steelo in that memorable Pacing Cup when Steelo broke up on the line. He was a top horse and put Jesse on the Map. He followed up with another very good Adios Express horse called Silver Express, who won his home track Cup, and hasn't looked back since. Now in his 70's, his record with young horses is almost unmatched. Champagne Classics with Nixon Adios (1975), Wirrpunda (2001), All Four Firing (2002) and Tricky Styx (2014, a Diamond Classic with Tricky Styx (2014), Gold Bracelet Fidelius Charm (2008), Golden Slipper The Jobs On (2004), Pearl Classic Don Athaldo (1998), The Jobs On (2004), Sales Classic Trunkey Masserati (1993), The Vigilante (1995 Wirrpunda (2001), Jupiters Darling (2005), Western Crown Classic Quite Loaded (2007) Bubbles and Bling (2008) and the Sires Stakes Trunkey Masserati (1993). The WA Derby Nixon Adios (1976), Trunkey Masserati (1994), Country Derby Norwest Boy (1993), Summer Gift Nixon Adios (1976)......and more. Other notable winners as young horses such as Forty Two Grand, Pimlico, Murcielago, Soho Dionysis, All The Way EmKay, Soho Monroe, Unseen Hanover, Tiger Reed Lombo, Incendio, Ningaloo, Rich Babe, Top Notch Tiger, Hear No Secret, Precious Tom, Fast Play Avon Fella....and so it goes on. He had a great eye for a horse at the sale, frequently buying the highest priced colt at the sale for long time stable clients, Max and Trevor Kanny of Manjimup, thus the names ""All The Way EmKay", "Forty Two Grand" and "The Jobs On". And still it continues with his first up 2YO winner of the season just a week ago. He certainly has built an unbelievable and well deserved name for himself as WA's top juvenile trainer. No doubt, there are plenty more he has broken in and educated for others and plenty that I have missed but I was in a hurry to get the thread back on track.

AndrewCarter

I don't have anything to do with greyhounds, hate them with a passion and you will never see me put my name to a greyhound story of any description ever.
I have no control over greyhound content, any racing content and racing with our boss is the priority is dictated to by the limited amount of space that we're allocated. The sad fact is now that Adam Hamilton is no longer with the heraldsun is that there was no story on either the Victoria or Hunter Cups in the Heraldsun (which is an absolute disgrace in my opinion)and they're only Victoria's two biggest harness races I know this as I was looking on the news limited system searching for one, in other words count yourself lucky for what you get as it's an uphill battle. As for greyhounds I will never go to a greyhound track so if you think I would have any problems writing about a greyhound trainer you're delusional. Why don't you ask the guy who writes on the greyhounds why there wasn't a story.

AndrewCarter

Yes am pretty sure sam torre is a close relative of the torre butchers.

JayJay

The "hook up" with the Kanny's came about through the buying of beef cattle from down here. Roedigers, for whom Jesse worked for in Northam, had their own abattoir and Jesse was their chief buyer...and Manjimup had/has a lot of cows. The "pool" of trainers in Manjimup is pretty limited although they have collared the last 2 $100k State Sires 2YO Classics (Kimba Bay and All Aussie Boy). There is a very good track here in Manjimup and it was thought at one stage that racing may even start up.....Phil Coulson even came down for the tracks opening years and years ago and time trialled a horse to set the inaugural track record...I think about 2.4.0. A lot of Jesse's early winners get the money due to them having great race manners, a commodity more essential than ability in some respects. He makes a lot of "early kills" with his babies. And astute enough to engage the top drivers as well. Jesse is no late foal, believe me, and a good bloke as well.

G-Mac

Sorry Andrew, I was asking JayJay. He's the man.

JayJay

Sam was the late Carl Torre's brother and uncle to Ross who had the Royalstar Breeding operation. And Yes, they are the butchers. Been involved for decades with all those Torre and Cipriano horses that Lyle used to train for them....good juveniles too...Santos Adios, Santo Carlo, Wee Cent, Dollars Double and so on. Have dug up some info on Sam but will post tomorrow. Zzzzz time for ol JayJay.

Chariotsonfire

Putting the Gleaming plunge of +$50k in 1978 into perspective the median house price in Perth at the time was around $45,000.

Today its in excess of $500,000. Diva would be able to tell us approximately what could be taken out of the current Ascot ring but it fall well and truly short of $500k.

VillageKid

Hey JJ would it be right to say Jesse seems to move them on to other trainers once they hit the 4yo mark? I cant remember him having many "older" horses running around over the last 30 years or so. That record with the babies is second to none and I can recall John Hunt used to cherish calling Trunkey Masserati & Wirrpunda when they were running around GP.

Chariotsonfire

Always respected John Hunt's passion but he had a tendency to go before the "Flemington Clock Tower" with the champion tag.