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WA Pacing Cup 4th Feb - let's start the discussion!?

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,847 posts
    Supertab pari-mutuel turnover this year $159k compared to $165.8k on 4th December 2020.

    Fixed odds could have well been up due to field depth but we will never know.

    freodockers, Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,806 posts
    CHAMPION in capital letters the Bull.---Races aren't won over 400m----.I.M.O --Magnificent Storm if they can ever  harness his high speed, to a push button scenario  as watching him go not that he  pulls super hard he seems at different times during  his races to lock his head against  his own neck,& goes to hard within himself,  which must be detracting from  the amount of  air he gets in,because when he is all out he can't give you a lift under pressure step.Which in fast class its very noticeable,

    Just with the quarter think he could break 26sec regularly sat up just lobbing along in time .---Soho Tribeca has dropped 26.2 Hectorjay jay. 26.6  Shockwave  was timed to run 24.9 during a race at pinjarra.was another great horse that could sizzle but . .
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  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    STG the M.Storm team would know better than anyone in regards to horses condition in the last
    3 Runs wouldn’t be surprised if horse is flat I suspect .
    But the experience in racing FFA will do him good as bullying the opposition as in prior campaigns
    won’t happen again .
    In regards to sitting him up I believe a few videos of how themighytquin raced wouldn’t be the
    worst in possibly changing aproach to his racing and sorting any chinks in his race manners .
    In regards to C.Bull even though the money bet on him was a ringing endorsement on how he
    was going I never would’ve believed he could do what he did .
    C. Bull & G Hall Senior top shelf Horse & the Trainer I believe at times I don’t appreciate
    how great a conditioner he is

    VillageKid likes this post.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Here we are questioning Mag Storm.
    Probably his best run this time in.
    Trailed Patronus Star from the 1000.
    5 wide on the turn and goes down by 1.6 mtrs.
    Massive run.
    Easy in hindsight but if he went forward at the start, settles in front of CB, with clear running he wins with a leg in his the air.
    Give credit where credit is due, after CB was best run in the race.
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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,806 posts
        Forums are just opinions.No doubt fast class horses  adaptability to different  tactics,& susceptibility at different distances there is not much between them all----7 metres covered the first nine across the line in pacing cup.

    In Quinnys first pacing cup cramp drove him jnr drove washkie----First Freo Cup  jnr drove Spirit of shard---Cramp drove Quinny. Without knowing 100% imagine jnr had the choice---who would of thought.


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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Not having a go at anyone STG.
    Only looked at Mag Storm run after reading comments.
    I too thought he had been disappointing but when you watch just him it was a huge run and a credit to Ray Williams to get him to back up.

    Rex likes this post.

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,847 posts
    Agree with you Dockers. Magnificent Storm off the track and would have broken 56 seconds for his last 800m. Many thought Patronus Star has a good chance (me included) yet MS got over him with ease. 

    Winner and 2nd had very soft runs and Chicago Bull was very brave.

    Very hard taskmasters on here.

    freodockers, JayJay likes this post.

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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    207 posts
    Storm last 800 54.86,yeah went terrible.

    JayJay likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    Yes, Storm did a fantastic job. Genuine question on those sectionals.....its pretty academic but are they for the last 800m or the last 804.5 metres? Some produce hand timed sectionals off the TV that are often at odds with the electronic numbers, I just wonder where the actual "sensors" are located. It is not hideously important, it's bordering on pedantic but is the "400m" sensor at 400m or 402.25m
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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    207 posts
    Not sure I just seen it on the rwwa sectional times
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    How do you sleep at night JayJay ?
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  • ArapahoArapaho    223 posts
    Chariotsonfire said:

    Agree with you Dockers. Magnificent Storm off the track and would have broken 56 seconds for his last 800m. Many thought Patronus Star has a good chance (me included) yet MS got over him with ease. 


    Winner and 2nd had very soft runs and Chicago Bull was very brave.

    Very hard taskmasters on here.
    Patronus Star was the disappointment of the race.
    His run in the Freo Cup when he gave Minstrel 30 to 40 metres and came about 8 deep to get within a head,compared to the Pacing Cup when he had Minstrels back at the bell after doing no work,were worlds apart and not only did Mag.Storm,but  all horses got over him with ease except Mighty Conqueror who galloped across the line and Balcatherine who had some sort of issue.
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  • ArapahoArapaho    223 posts
    JayJay said:

    Yes, Storm did a fantastic job. Genuine question on those sectionals.....its pretty academic but are they for the last 800m or the last 804.5 metres? Some produce hand timed sectionals off the TV that are often at odds with the electronic numbers, I just wonder where the actual "sensors" are located. It is not hideously important, it's bordering on pedantic but is the "400m" sensor at 400m or 402.25m

    Just to be pedantic, with 2 laps of 804.5m equalling 1609m or 1 mile I would call 1 lap 804.5 as we do,
    the last half
    half mile that is.
    After all, we still talk in mile rates.
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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Quite a few jurisdictions around the globe where the winner would probably have been relegated to a position behind Mighty Conquerer. 
    Any interference regardless of cause is viewed more harshly in terms of consequence in some quarters.eg US Europe NZ

    freodockers likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    4 or 5 years ago, the winner of the Hambletonian got scrubbed, What The Hill and I think it was David Miller who caused interference. A million dollar race.

    freodockers likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    Oh boy - ive got to respond to the utter biased craap on this parochial WA site

    Cry me a river - for the excuses for Magnificent Storm 

    What happened the week before - Ciscos horse - a good horse - but currently wouldnt be in the top 20 pacers in Aust - gave it a start and a cold - what are the excuses for that 

    If  MS had been a boom E/States pacer - 90% of  posters  here - would be rubbishing the shiit out it - i mean 2-3 posters have rubbished Popular Alm - and one made the most ridiculous post of all time - saying - oh look its difficult how to rate Popular Alm 

    If  you watch the replay - MS - the last 50 metres it got tired - like it has in 3-4 of its wins to date - it did no work in the run - till 300-350 metre mark .  Minstrel - who i think it is at least as good as it - if not better ( has  beaten it before in a big race - it was a super run - 3 wide from the 1000 metre mark without cover - MS beats it by half a metre - switch the roles and at the finish line - Minstrel would be well ahead of MS 

    The word champion gets loosely applied - and a couple have mentioned  Qinny -  ( who was a bona fide champion - and maybe the best ever ) well FRK drove it in track work ( and Fred had great horses like Pure Steel ) - and he said - he wouldnt put them in the same paddock as Quinny 

    And at this stage you dont put MS - anywhere near the same paddock as Quinny 

    Ijust post impartially - and at this stage i think Minstrel is a slightly superior horse to MS - i think it is stronger - and i think it has got a better complete body pacing action under extreme pressure - like the last 50-100 metres- doesnt sway around - or throw the head around 
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Neither Mag Storm or Minstrel are champions.
    Don’t think anyone here has indicated that.
    Anyhow good to see you back with your forthright opinions.
    Makes for interesting conversation.

    Markovina, savethegame, jum likes this post.

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  • Ivorytrunkey86Ivorytrunkey86    207 posts
    Marko with more comebacks than John Farnham.

    savethegame, Arapaho, jum, Rocket_Reign likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,806 posts
    Marko good to see you back. M.Storm rate  him very highly  prior to pacing cup thought his the only horse that carried the X-Factor were he could blow the opposition away without being a surprise.but there's little things in his makeup. which stopped me from having a bet would the 2900m be a obstacle if Aldo winged him from the gate.etc? I was on Patronious Star and Chicargo Bull

    I.M.O if  all  pacing cup field went against the clock with a Galloping pacemaker over a mile individual reckon he would damage the state record.

    Quinny was 200k. purchase  also took time in the making with probably single biggest factor came into to play when he was driven cold in elite company. Was at Northam when Scan Air ran down I.M.Q.after giving him a couple lengths start on the corner. .But every year he just got better.

    freodockers likes this post.

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  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    567 posts
    Did the early salute by Emily cost Miracle Moose victory?

    Markovina likes this post.

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  • jumjum    3,516 posts
    AbbysAce said:

    Did the early salute by Emily cost Miracle Moose victory?

    I think no 

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • 2lifetimewinners2lifetimewinners    508 posts
    jum said:

    AbbysAce said:

    Did the early salute by Emily cost Miracle Moose victory?

    I think no 
    Should it cost her a suspension?

    I think yes

    jum likes this post.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,739 posts
    2lifetimewinners said:

    jum said:

    AbbysAce said:

    Did the early salute by Emily cost Miracle Moose victory?

    I think no 
    Should it cost her a suspension?

    I think yes



    Tend to agree, didn’t cost the race but just maybe a bit of time to cool your jets before going again.

    jum likes this post.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Probably be a bit of a penalty window dressing to come....pretty sure Emily realised before she hit the line that she had to recapture the early crow. Fair to say she could drive until she is 121 & she won't be doing that in those circumstances again.
    Callan sort of .....ah bugger it...it's a Pacing Cup.....bang....sorry.... play on.... as well.
    Needed a couple of sets of eyes live to work out what was going on.....cisco will still be watching trying to decipher how he didn't win.

    cisco likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    AbbysAce said:

    Did the early salute by Emily cost Miracle Moose victory?

    Definitely Positively Maybe

    But  im more in the Yes camp - horses do switch off - and that is why i admire Hall jnr ( re on an Aust wide basis ) he concentrates - and drives each drive right out to the finishing line 

    She is only young - she was excited - i mean Jack Callaghan (  who is a similar age ) recently won the big 3 Cups trifecta - Bendigo/Shepparton/Ballarat  and he gave a nice salute on one of them 

    I think 2 weeks suspension would be appropriate - not over the top - but given it was a 450k race - 275k to 68k - i think was the prizemoney differential - so it has to cop some type of suspension


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  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    One has to give credit where Credit is Due upon reflection Callan drove for luck but considering
    tractability issues with the horse at G.P he achieved in gaining W.W the most advantageous run
    minimising any issues for the horse .
    I suspect he’s older than Jr but Jr maybe influencing his analytics of race drive / style.
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Pretty sure his instructions from barrier seven on 100/1 pop would have been as follows.
    Get to the fence as quick as you can and pray for a miracle.
    Which he got.
    Not rocket science just common sense.
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  • PictureSon1973PictureSon1973    138 posts
    Freo you are in all likelihood correct but the instructions could’ve been your on a 100/1 pop Barrier 7 no one gives you a chance sit outside Bond Runner that leads give the leader hell while enabling
    C.B the sit this didn’t occur .
    I have no doubt some luck was required but to say it was a Hail Mary imo is diminishing the
    Drivers Skill in giving W.W it’s best winning chance considering as stated prior its tractability
    issues @ G.P he could’ve butchered the drive and no one would question it as it was 100/1
    but he didn’t thus I believe credit due to Driver / Trainer & Horse
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    That would be called team driving.
    Never in the history of the Pacing Cup would such a thing occur.

    JayJay, Cant_Refuse, Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    21 day salute.

    jum likes this post.

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