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WACHRA Submission and Question Time In The legislative Assembly (Rundle/Whitby)

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    587 posts
    edited August 2023
    The HWOE is a great system for high priced NZers and Eastern staters, most of them dont win unless they draw 1 or got a stablemate or a driver mate to hand up, then they race them twice a week, every week ( you cant get balloted out when there cant make full fields) until last 5 starts is less than a certain $ range ( depending on their L assessment ) they are guaranteed to win on a Tuesday night because they are racing horses 10 classes below and majority of them cannot win a race anywhere.

    Then repeat the process, then repeat the process, after 3/4 years they have the majority of their purchase price back.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    870 posts
    AbbysAce said:

    The HWOE is a great system for high priced NZers and Eastern staters, most of them dont win unless they draw 1 or got a stablemate or a driver mate to hand up, then they race them twice a week, every week ( you cant get balloted out when there cant make full fields) until last 5 starts is less than a certain $ range ( depending on their L assessment ) they are guaranteed to win on a Tuesday night because they are racing horses 10 classes below and majority of them cannot win a race anywhere.


    Then repeat the process, then repeat the process, after 3/4 years they have the majority of their purchase price back.



    You make it sound like a bad thing that owners have a chance to recoup their purchase costs…
  • Chopchop43Chopchop43    172 posts
    AbbysAce said:

    The HWOE is a great system for high priced NZers and Eastern staters, most of them dont win unless they draw 1 or got a stablemate or a driver mate to hand up, then they race them twice a week, every week ( you cant get balloted out when there cant make full fields) until last 5 starts is less than a certain $ range ( depending on their L assessment ) they are guaranteed to win on a Tuesday night because they are racing horses 10 classes below and majority of them cannot win a race anywhere.


    Then repeat the process, then repeat the process, after 3/4 years they have the majority of their purchase price back.
    Well I mean Al Guerrero was no high price eastern stater or nzer but I was able to go up and down the l5$ grades and make a bit of coin in the process granted he was a handy horse but I think any trainer/owner can take advantage of the l5$ races if they wanted to
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    587 posts

    AbbysAce said:

    The HWOE is a great system for high priced NZers and Eastern staters, most of them dont win unless they draw 1 or got a stablemate or a driver mate to hand up, then they race them twice a week, every week ( you cant get balloted out when there cant make full fields) until last 5 starts is less than a certain $ range ( depending on their L assessment ) they are guaranteed to win on a Tuesday night because they are racing horses 10 classes below and majority of them cannot win a race anywhere.


    Then repeat the process, then repeat the process, after 3/4 years they have the majority of their purchase price back.



    You make it sound like a bad thing that owners have a chance to recoup their purchase costs…
    Quite the opposite, but I can understand why a hobby owner/trainer with a small stable and a small budget would probably not take a chance buying a horse from the East or NZ, if it isnt racing well, you are most likely be going up against free for all horses and they can draw 1. Are any L5$ races PBD/L class? Would have to make them better betting races.

    JayJay, LightningJake, VillageKid likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    118 posts
    edited August 2023
    Morning, Harness Racing Handicap Model should be and can be a simple and fair system. When a horse starts it's career as we know it's a maiden zero wins, for example L0, depending on ability move through system with no cap at L15 so some horses could end up L 20,25 and beyond( no drop back no condition racing) the handicapper should program races to for this to happen. Horses that race out of it's class (higher) and wins takes the penalty of that class. This forces horses to race through the classes. Class only races should be RBD and mixed classes PBD. If any one believes the HWOE and the NRS are the future i can only wish you good luck as history and the figures show they are a disaster ( if anyone has figures to suggest i'm wrong please share) as they are only recycle model's, we need to refresh.

    LightningJake likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    870 posts

    Morning, Harness Racing Handicap Model should be and can be a simple and fair system. When a horse starts it's career as we know it's a maiden zero wins, for example L0, depending on ability move through system with no cap at L15 so some horses could end up L 20,25 and beyond( no drop back no condition racing) the handicapper should program races to for this to happen. Horses that race out of it's class (higher) and wins takes the penalty of that class. This forces horses to race through the classes. Class only races should be RBD and mixed classes PBD. If any one believes the HWOE and the NRS are the future i can only wish you good luck as history and the figures show they are a disaster ( if anyone has figures to suggest i'm wrong please share) as they are only recycle model's, we need to refresh.




    If you’ve ever run a big successful stable you’d realise that’s a terrible take on what would work, we already don’t race good horses up in grade EG the FFA coz you get stuck there which is why the FFA struggles for numbers at some parts of the year. No drop back rule also means there would be more selling out of the state to America or over east and it wasn’t that long ago when the NR come in with the loophole and everyone was sending horses east the narrative was we were doomed
  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    118 posts
    Luck for me Harness wasn’t my profession but I certainly ran a successful business one thing I do know a return of .48 cents in the dollar is not substainable.
  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    118 posts
    Every horse has it’s Waterloo, horses have been exported to the USA for the last 60 years adding money to the owners pockets.
  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    118 posts
    Every horse has it’s Waterloo, horses have been exported to the USA for the last 60 years adding money to the owners pockets.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    870 posts

    Luck for me Harness wasn’t my profession but I certainly ran a successful business one thing I do know a return of .48 cents in the dollar is not substainable.




    Yeah I’m running a business aswell, doesn’t mean I think I’m an expert in another field

    Cant_Refuse likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    118 posts
    Doesn’t matter what business your in .48 cents in the dollar ain’t acceptable and substainable

    LightningJake likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    870 posts

    Doesn’t matter what business your in .48 cents in the dollar ain’t acceptable and substainable




    Which is why changes are being made, costly tracks having reduced meetings and upgrade GP which is our highest turnover track week in week out regardless of days/time slots etc

    LightningJake, Betonme dislikes this post.

  • JayJayJayJay    7,769 posts
    "Grow the Industry by shrinking the footprint'.....the facts do not support your assertion as GP turnover is very costly and very dependent on timeslot.

    LightningJake likes this post.

  • warrenrobinsonwarrenrobinson    118 posts
    Back in 1995 need to race moore at GP turnover turnover turnover shrink the industry to grow, shrunk the industry but have gone backwards only the naive and uneducated allowing themselves to be sucked in by the propaganda specialists are on board. Name one item that has actually worked in that time.
  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    870 posts
    JayJay said:

    "Grow the Industry by shrinking the footprint'.....the facts do not support your assertion as GP turnover is very costly and very dependent on timeslot.




    You should go to one of the state bodies meetings and you’ll see that the facts and numbers do support my assertion
  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,977 posts
    Wheres GP at with the proposed redeveolopment 

    I havent heard anything for about 6 mths - is it definitely going ahead - have they had the vote yet 

    BOTRA were totally against it - and were going to appeal to the Minister for Sport 

    So what is the current situation 
  • AbbysAceAbbysAce    587 posts

    Doesn’t matter what business your in .48 cents in the dollar ain’t acceptable and substainable




    Which is why changes are being made, costly tracks having reduced meetings and upgrade GP which is our highest turnover track week in week out regardless of days/time slots etc
    If you think thats the answer, you'll be racing aginst yourself, 6 races. 6 horses, then the govt say no more, GONE.

    JayJay, LightningJake likes this post.

  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    870 posts
    AbbysAce said:

    Doesn’t matter what business your in .48 cents in the dollar ain’t acceptable and substainable




    Which is why changes are being made, costly tracks having reduced meetings and upgrade GP which is our highest turnover track week in week out regardless of days/time slots etc
    If you think thats the answer, you'll be racing aginst yourself, 6 races. 6 horses, then the govt say no more, GONE.



    You think that, but it’s really not true
  • JayJayJayJay    7,769 posts
    Spending 56% of Industry funding to generate 52% of turnover is expensive turnover......in the Prime time slot to boot. Fact

    Country Meetings with their volunteer base and lower costs and lower stakes are cheaper to run and are relative to GP Metro, cheaper turnover.
    Fact

    Significant drop off in Friday Night Nominations at GP, Country nominations on the rise. Trainers are not supporting GP Metro meetings.  Fact.

    Turnover heading south from 25% a couple of decades ago down to 12% of overall share. Fact.

    TAB distribution tracking along the same path. Fact

    On course turnover at GP has degenerated to almost nothing.Fact

    Harness returning 48 cents for every dollar in stakes out layed. Fact

    Meetings at GP increased from 86 in 2003/04 to 98 in 2022 to 'help increase turnover".....a total failure. Fact.

    Past rationalisations have driven vast numbers of licensees, breeders and owners out of the Industry. Fact

    Some of "the state bodies" you refer to represent a microcosm of the overall industry and are, understandably, all about preserving the status quo and self interest, regardless of what the facts are. Some are the chief proponents of the demonstrably stupid concept of "Grow the Industry by shrinking the footprint".
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