Railways Stakes 2012

ICE · November 2012

10 gr1 flags in the race yes very weak

TomSmarts · November 2012

When doing the current form you can see why the placings were - Mr.Moet, LuckyGray & Rosie Rocket - they had current consistent form...add Maschino and thats about it. You wouldn't put 50cents on any other horse in the race - on current form.

SLIPPERGOLDEN · November 2012

After a huge run like that it is amazing Rosie didn't win the Northam Cup by panels but was unplaced. instead

Voodoo · November 2012

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
After a huge run like that it is amazing Rosie didn't win the Northam Cup by panels but was unplaced. instead

Unbelievable run by this mare....absolutely enormous...how much has it taken out of her ? Can she ever repeat it ?
[-( :-?

cheers

DamienWyer · November 2012

The Funkster said:
Is there any danger of a thread sticking to the subject matter and not getting railroaded by people with other agendas?
WTF is there a video of Barakey on this thread? I'm pretty sure he wasn't even in the Railway...
All these other agendas by several people are getting a bit tiresome....
Stick to the subject matter or f__k off!

The video is a series of images taken from the day, that is all 10 races. I chose the Barakey as the thumbnail nothing more. Did you watch it at all ?

The soundtrack has lyrics of "nobody is listening, you can scream as loud as you want". Got that spot on.

goose · November 2012

Yes she will repeat it no problem has produced huge runs before has to be a huge chance in Fruit N Veg 1800m.

raconteur · November 2012

the falcon said:
watch it rac...diva best delete that post....

Now that is simply purile - Falcon - it is a valid observation - which is obvious to everyone and anyone who was there or looked at the video and you suggest "Delete the Comment" -
I understand the Forum Laws - regarding discussions on lillegal matters - but how then are there Threads on issues such as :
GUYNO being weighted for Amelia's Dream ? - Damien Oliver's betting ? - references to horses not trying and a myriad of different things that are simply day to day racing .

I thought it was Ostrichs which hid their head in the sand not a noble soaring Falcon.

Good forum theory: Concerntrate on the positives and the negatives can be buried along with the Ostrich's head.

BrisburghPhil · November 2012

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.

thefalcon · November 2012

rac, i think you'll find the moderator saw fit to delete your post.
i rest my case....

Rogue_Green · November 2012

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.

Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.

TheDiva · November 2012

raconteur said:

the falcon said:
watch it rac...diva best delete that post....
Now that is simply purile - Falcon - it is a valid observation - which is obvious to everyone and anyone who was there or looked at the video and you suggest "Delete the Comment" -
I understand the Forum Laws - regarding discussions on lillegal matters - but how then are there Threads on issues such as :
GUYNO being weighted for Amelia's Dream ? - Damien Oliver's betting ? - references to horses not trying and a myriad of different things that are simply day to day racing .

I thought it was Ostrichs which hid their head in the sand not a noble soaring Falcon.

Good forum theory: Concerntrate on the positives and the negatives can be buried along with the Ostrich's head.

not too sure what was valid about your observation as the spurs are/were not illegal.

If you have input that is blatantly incorrect and it brings into question the legality of the equipment of the winner of the weekend's Group 1, your post will be deleted....guaranteed.

Perhaps check your information before you post something like that again.

BrisburghPhil · November 2012

Rogue_Green said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.
Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.

Well firstly Fat Al has won at 2000 so there is no doubt he can run 1600m RG. Secondly if you read my comments about Yosei before the race I said i doubted her at a mile. Pace not over killed? They went under 60 seconds for the first 1000m which is a bit quicker than I anticipated.

I've just watched the replay a few times. Really, how far should ROSIE ROCKET have won the race by if she had cover in the race? I'd say she wins by 2L. You admoniished me for mentioning that narrow victory Luckygray had at WFA over Rosie Rocket in June when he was second up. But you failed to mention that Rosie Rocket was first up after a 2.5 month break, so which horse was underdone??

I'm not bagging Luckgray. He is top drawer and he run was excellent on Saturday. BUT he was out the back bludging the whole race whilst a horse like RR was working wide the whole way. He got forced horribly wide on the turn but it did actually look as though he would sprout wings and win the race half way down the straight. He couldn't sustain it though and even seemed to lay out a touch, suggesting he didn't quite run it out with the big weight. Either that or he was in the wrong part of the track, the part where no horse won from all day! That factor definitely adds weight to your argument.
On what we've seen of him thus far do you think he is better @ 1400m or a mile?

Now he goes to 1800m with the weights very much in his favour at WFA. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why he got beat as a short priced favourite in the same race last year? He gets his chance this time to dismiss any doubts about his stamina. He might win but I couldn't take anything like the $2.75 offered up. $5 Playing God, $9 Ranger, $13.00 Mr Moet, $15 Rosie Rocket. He'll probably beat Ranger home but not sure about the other 3.

I'm not professing to be an expert and I'm quite often wrong. Just my opinion atm that his optimum distance is 1400m. Happy to be proven wrong.

TheDiva · November 2012

Rosie rocket! She ran 1800m on Saturday!! :D

ICE · November 2012

BrisburghPhil said:

Rogue_Green said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.
Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.
Well firstly Fat Al has won at 2000 so there is no doubt he can run 1600m RG. Secondly if you read my comments about Yosei before the race I said i doubted her at a mile. Pace not over killed? They went under 60 seconds for the first 1000m which is a bit quicker than I anticipated.

I've just watched the replay a few times. Really, how far should ROSIE ROCKET have won the race by if she had cover in the race? I'd say she wins by 2L. You admoniished me for mentioning that narrow victory Luckygray had at WFA over Rosie Rocket in June when he was second up. But you failed to mention that Rosie Rocket was first up after a 2.5 month break, so which horse was underdone??

I'm not bagging Luckgray. He is top drawer and he run was excellent on Saturday. BUT he was out the back bludging the whole race whilst a horse like RR was working wide the whole way. He got forced horribly wide on the turn but it did actually look as though he would sprout wings and win the race half way down the straight. He couldn't sustain it though and even seemed to lay out a touch, suggesting he didn't quite run it out with the big weight. Either that or he was in the wrong part of the track, the part where no horse won from all day! That factor definitely adds weight to your argument.
On what we've seen of him thus far do you think he is better @ 1400m or a mile?

Now he goes to 1800m with the weights very much in his favour at WFA. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why he got beat as a short priced favourite in the same race last year? He gets his chance this time to dismiss any doubts about his stamina. He might win but I couldn't take anything like the $2.75 offered up. $5 Playing God, $9 Ranger, $13.00 Mr Moet, $15 Rosie Rocket. He'll probably beat Ranger home but not sure about the other 3.

I'm not professing to be an expert and I'm quite often wrong. Just my opinion atm that his optimum distance is 1400m. Happy to be proven wrong.

You are spot Phil his pet Distance is 1200-1400 1800m will really test him and at WFA I would say no chance in Qld
:-B

loose_goose · November 2012

The Diva said:
Rosie rocket! She ran 1800m on Saturday!! :D

Always thought to win a Railway you need to be able to run at least a strong 1800m , IMO.

And thats whats good abouts forums, people not afraid to offer an opinion like Brisyphil, having the guts to be shot down in flames if wrong, but having the balls to put your opinion out there

thefalcon · November 2012

well said, loose-goose. spot on. and, thankyou, phil.

Semipropunter · November 2012

Phil Luckygray's performance with 58kg was lengths better than last year, and Gino had the Chiropractor treat him before the Kingston Town last year. Rosie Rocket was a huge run, as was the winner, Mr Moet & Playing God. But they all carried 53kg and the pace wasn't that bad.

Consider the comparison to last year:
2011: Overall time: 1:34.88 1st 1000m: 59.98, last 600m:34.90
2012: Overall time: 1:35.89 1st 1000m: 59.71, last 600m: 36.19

The times tell you the first 1000m was run just .27 faster-less than 2 lengths quicker than last year and certainly nowhere near the guineas(57.86).

Also have a look at the final 600m splits:

Mr.Moet: 35.75
Luckygray: 35.11
Playing God: 36.12
Rosie Rocket: 35.88

I think Mr Moet & Playing God both had charmed runs on the rails, got out at the right time and were able to grind away.The tempo was not the reason for Fat Al's flop. Many were saying he would get a soft lead and would just be too good. Funny how the question of carrying weight was never mentioned regarding his chances, but would stop Luckygray in his tracks. Rosie Rocket was a massive run, as was her effort in the Hyperion in a slowly run race 1:38.35, last 600m 34.98(albeit on a dead 5), but she was getting 5kg from Luckygray on the weekend,and LG was probably over the top in the Hyperion-he certainly didn't attack the line in the Belmont Sprint the way he did in the Roma Cup.

There's no horse i'd rather be backing than LG.The others are value, but as long as LG is in good order he will win this.

raconteur · November 2012

DIVA,
I think Damien demonstrated thru his photo that the spurs were not those which are permissable in WA - and a cursory glance at the photo of the finish will lay testimony to that -irrespective of it being a Group 1 race or a lowly Maiden at Gascoyne I thought the same rules applied .

- but given that you are indeed the Moderator , I figure that " The Golden Rule" applies -

" He with the gold makes the rules"

Not really an open forum is it?

dungy · November 2012

ICE said:

BrisburghPhil said:

Rogue_Green said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.
Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.
Well firstly Fat Al has won at 2000 so there is no doubt he can run 1600m RG. Secondly if you read my comments about Yosei before the race I said i doubted her at a mile. Pace not over killed? They went under 60 seconds for the first 1000m which is a bit quicker than I anticipated.

I've just watched the replay a few times. Really, how far should ROSIE ROCKET have won the race by if she had cover in the race? I'd say she wins by 2L. You admoniished me for mentioning that narrow victory Luckygray had at WFA over Rosie Rocket in June when he was second up. But you failed to mention that Rosie Rocket was first up after a 2.5 month break, so which horse was underdone??

I'm not bagging Luckgray. He is top drawer and he run was excellent on Saturday. BUT he was out the back bludging the whole race whilst a horse like RR was working wide the whole way. He got forced horribly wide on the turn but it did actually look as though he would sprout wings and win the race half way down the straight. He couldn't sustain it though and even seemed to lay out a touch, suggesting he didn't quite run it out with the big weight. Either that or he was in the wrong part of the track, the part where no horse won from all day! That factor definitely adds weight to your argument.
On what we've seen of him thus far do you think he is better @ 1400m or a mile?

Now he goes to 1800m with the weights very much in his favour at WFA. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why he got beat as a short priced favourite in the same race last year? He gets his chance this time to dismiss any doubts about his stamina. He might win but I couldn't take anything like the $2.75 offered up. $5 Playing God, $9 Ranger, $13.00 Mr Moet, $15 Rosie Rocket. He'll probably beat Ranger home but not sure about the other 3.

I'm not professing to be an expert and I'm quite often wrong. Just my opinion atm that his optimum distance is 1400m. Happy to be proven wrong.

You are spot Phil his pet Distance is 1200-1400 1800m will really test him and at WFA I would say no chance in Qld
:-B

I agree he[LG] wont run a strong 1800m didnt last year and wont this year Mr Moet has won at WFA is on the up 10s is a good price ,a couple of mates have 80-1 Mr Moet in the KT

TheDiva · November 2012

Raconteur your statement was and still is incorrect. The spurs are legal.

Semipropunter · November 2012

dungy said:

ICE said:

BrisburghPhil said:

Rogue_Green said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.
Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.
Well firstly Fat Al has won at 2000 so there is no doubt he can run 1600m RG. Secondly if you read my comments about Yosei before the race I said i doubted her at a mile. Pace not over killed? They went under 60 seconds for the first 1000m which is a bit quicker than I anticipated.

I've just watched the replay a few times. Really, how far should ROSIE ROCKET have won the race by if she had cover in the race? I'd say she wins by 2L. You admoniished me for mentioning that narrow victory Luckygray had at WFA over Rosie Rocket in June when he was second up. But you failed to mention that Rosie Rocket was first up after a 2.5 month break, so which horse was underdone??

I'm not bagging Luckgray. He is top drawer and he run was excellent on Saturday. BUT he was out the back bludging the whole race whilst a horse like RR was working wide the whole way. He got forced horribly wide on the turn but it did actually look as though he would sprout wings and win the race half way down the straight. He couldn't sustain it though and even seemed to lay out a touch, suggesting he didn't quite run it out with the big weight. Either that or he was in the wrong part of the track, the part where no horse won from all day! That factor definitely adds weight to your argument.
On what we've seen of him thus far do you think he is better @ 1400m or a mile?

Now he goes to 1800m with the weights very much in his favour at WFA. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why he got beat as a short priced favourite in the same race last year? He gets his chance this time to dismiss any doubts about his stamina. He might win but I couldn't take anything like the $2.75 offered up. $5 Playing God, $9 Ranger, $13.00 Mr Moet, $15 Rosie Rocket. He'll probably beat Ranger home but not sure about the other 3.

I'm not professing to be an expert and I'm quite often wrong. Just my opinion atm that his optimum distance is 1400m. Happy to be proven wrong.

You are spot Phil his pet Distance is 1200-1400 1800m will really test him and at WFA I would say no chance in Qld
:-B
I agree he[LG] wont run a strong 1800m didnt last year and wont this year Mr Moet has won at WFA is on the up 10s is a good price ,a couple of mates have 80-1 Mr Moet in the KT

Only a bad ride from Donga will see Luckygray beaten.They will run along and make it a true staying test but the fact is LG is the best horse in WA, with a sprint that no horse can match. Last year he was a handicapper who was well placed in the Railway. Even if you dismiss the fact that he wasn't 100% in the KT, it wasn't a suprise he was beaten at WFA. This time around he gets weight turn arounds in his favour and is third up,not at the end of along prep. I honestly thought they were bonkers for even nominating for the Railway thisyear, and thought the KT was a much more realistic summer target.

dungy · November 2012

Semipro punter said:

dungy said:

ICE said:

BrisburghPhil said:

Rogue_Green said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.
Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.
Well firstly Fat Al has won at 2000 so there is no doubt he can run 1600m RG. Secondly if you read my comments about Yosei before the race I said i doubted her at a mile. Pace not over killed? They went under 60 seconds for the first 1000m which is a bit quicker than I anticipated.

I've just watched the replay a few times. Really, how far should ROSIE ROCKET have won the race by if she had cover in the race? I'd say she wins by 2L. You admoniished me for mentioning that narrow victory Luckygray had at WFA over Rosie Rocket in June when he was second up. But you failed to mention that Rosie Rocket was first up after a 2.5 month break, so which horse was underdone??

I'm not bagging Luckgray. He is top drawer and he run was excellent on Saturday. BUT he was out the back bludging the whole race whilst a horse like RR was working wide the whole way. He got forced horribly wide on the turn but it did actually look as though he would sprout wings and win the race half way down the straight. He couldn't sustain it though and even seemed to lay out a touch, suggesting he didn't quite run it out with the big weight. Either that or he was in the wrong part of the track, the part where no horse won from all day! That factor definitely adds weight to your argument.
On what we've seen of him thus far do you think he is better @ 1400m or a mile?

Now he goes to 1800m with the weights very much in his favour at WFA. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why he got beat as a short priced favourite in the same race last year? He gets his chance this time to dismiss any doubts about his stamina. He might win but I couldn't take anything like the $2.75 offered up. $5 Playing God, $9 Ranger, $13.00 Mr Moet, $15 Rosie Rocket. He'll probably beat Ranger home but not sure about the other 3.

I'm not professing to be an expert and I'm quite often wrong. Just my opinion atm that his optimum distance is 1400m. Happy to be proven wrong.

You are spot Phil his pet Distance is 1200-1400 1800m will really test him and at WFA I would say no chance in Qld
:-B
I agree he[LG] wont run a strong 1800m didnt last year and wont this year Mr Moet has won at WFA is on the up 10s is a good price ,a couple of mates have 80-1 Mr Moet in the KT
Only a bad ride from Donga will see Luckygray beaten.They will run along and make it a true staying test but the fact is LG is the best horse in WA, with a sprint that no horse can match. Last year he was a handicapper who was well placed in the Railway. Even if you dismiss the fact that he wasn't 100% in the KT, it wasn't a suprise he was beaten at WFA. This time around he gets weight turn arounds in his favour and is third up,not at the end of along prep. I honestly thought they were bonkers for even nominating for the Railway thisyear, and thought the KT was a much more realistic summer target.

If you say they will make it a true run staying event then LG has none !!! If they walk and make it a sprint home then he wins .
He isnt a stayer he is a middle distance horse and a mile sees him out i understand he meets them all better on weights but just reckon he is better at 1400m -1600m IMO is to short to get on now

carey · November 2012

raconteur said:
DIVA,
I think Damien demonstrated thru his photo that the spurs were not those which are permissable in WA - and a cursory glance at the photo of the finish will lay testimony to that -irrespective of it being a Group 1 race or a lowly Maiden at Gascoyne I thought the same rules applied .

- but given that you are indeed the Moderator , I figure that " The Golden Rule" applies -

" He with the gold makes the rules"

Not really an open forum is it?

where are damien's photo's?
i wouldn't mind looking and forming my own opinion on what he was wearing.
wa rules are unambiguous regarding spurs.

Rogue_Green · November 2012

dungy said:

Semipro punter said:

dungy said:

ICE said:

BrisburghPhil said:

Rogue_Green said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.
Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.
Well firstly Fat Al has won at 2000 so there is no doubt he can run 1600m RG. Secondly if you read my comments about Yosei before the race I said i doubted her at a mile. Pace not over killed? They went under 60 seconds for the first 1000m which is a bit quicker than I anticipated.

I've just watched the replay a few times. Really, how far should ROSIE ROCKET have won the race by if she had cover in the race? I'd say she wins by 2L. You admoniished me for mentioning that narrow victory Luckygray had at WFA over Rosie Rocket in June when he was second up. But you failed to mention that Rosie Rocket was first up after a 2.5 month break, so which horse was underdone??

I'm not bagging Luckgray. He is top drawer and he run was excellent on Saturday. BUT he was out the back bludging the whole race whilst a horse like RR was working wide the whole way. He got forced horribly wide on the turn but it did actually look as though he would sprout wings and win the race half way down the straight. He couldn't sustain it though and even seemed to lay out a touch, suggesting he didn't quite run it out with the big weight. Either that or he was in the wrong part of the track, the part where no horse won from all day! That factor definitely adds weight to your argument.
On what we've seen of him thus far do you think he is better @ 1400m or a mile?

Now he goes to 1800m with the weights very much in his favour at WFA. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why he got beat as a short priced favourite in the same race last year? He gets his chance this time to dismiss any doubts about his stamina. He might win but I couldn't take anything like the $2.75 offered up. $5 Playing God, $9 Ranger, $13.00 Mr Moet, $15 Rosie Rocket. He'll probably beat Ranger home but not sure about the other 3.

I'm not professing to be an expert and I'm quite often wrong. Just my opinion atm that his optimum distance is 1400m. Happy to be proven wrong.

You are spot Phil his pet Distance is 1200-1400 1800m will really test him and at WFA I would say no chance in Qld
:-B
I agree he[LG] wont run a strong 1800m didnt last year and wont this year Mr Moet has won at WFA is on the up 10s is a good price ,a couple of mates have 80-1 Mr Moet in the KT
Only a bad ride from Donga will see Luckygray beaten.They will run along and make it a true staying test but the fact is LG is the best horse in WA, with a sprint that no horse can match. Last year he was a handicapper who was well placed in the Railway. Even if you dismiss the fact that he wasn't 100% in the KT, it wasn't a suprise he was beaten at WFA. This time around he gets weight turn arounds in his favour and is third up,not at the end of along prep. I honestly thought they were bonkers for even nominating for the Railway thisyear, and thought the KT was a much more realistic summer target.
If you say they will make it a true run staying event then LG has none !!! If they walk and make it a sprint home then he wins .
He isnt a stayer he is a middle distance horse and a mile sees him out i understand he meets them all better on weights but just reckon he is better at 1400m -1600m IMO is to short to get on now

As much as i like your comments SemiPro, i doubt they will make it a staying test. What horse in WA is a true stayer? ha.
If Luckygray is sound, he will be winning the KT. Even his trainer doubts he is a 1800m plus horse, but quality will get horses along way.
As last year and the year before, Playing god will draw a marble of a gate (im predicting 3 or 4). He will try to pinch a break on the corner and hope no one runs hims down. A 90% Luckygray just wins this. Even with injury concerns and a longer prep last year, he ran 5th when he was a handicapped horse at best. He has upgraded to WFA and has the bulk to carry it.

Semipropunter · November 2012

dungy said:

Semipro punter said:

dungy said:

ICE said:

BrisburghPhil said:

Rogue_Green said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:

BrisburghPhil said:

SLIPPERGOLDEN said:
Hey Phil when does your book go to press?
Noted. It is too long!
My comment wasn't meant to be a negative Phil.. just picking up on the observation.you appear to enjoy writing. You obviously put a fair amount of time and effort into that contribution so cheers for that.

I took it as constructive criticism.Very easy to lose interest in this day and age if something isn't brief and to the point.
The Raiway is a race i've always liked and I've done a 'Focus' on it a couple of times in the past on a private forum. I was completely gutted the year Sniper's Bullet won because it just totally defied history at the time. This is really the first one I've done since and not sure I'll do another one on this or any race. Very time consuming and exhausting when you have a full time job. And you go back through the post once you've finished it and realise how many errors there are! Maybe better to just pick the bones out of the race so to speak. I've had a look back at my comments re Mr. Moet and still shaking my head about not having at least a saver on it, because I did have a few others in the race. Ranger blinkered me. If i was going to back a horse first up @ 1600m in a G1 it was going to be on a horse that was actually well weighted and exposed at this level.

Yet to really have a good look at the replay but my first thought was that Rosie Rocket was a certainty beaten. The fact she didn't get over from that barrier cruelled it for her well and truly, but she still ran 3rd. Haven't even looked at the run of Luckygray but at the 150m mark the commentator was calling it the winner and it loomed ominously. For mine he still isn't a genuine 1600m horse but time will tell.
Jeez Phil your a harsh judge on a horse not being a genuine 1600m horse. May i ask you, which horse/horses are genuine 1600m horses? Fatl Al? Yosei?

The very best horses are judged on their handicap form and if they can flow it through to weight for age races. Surely 2nd in a handicap where he gave 3/4 of the field 5kg, proves he is a genuine 1600m horse? He didnt win, but god he gave it a good rattle. A last 600m faster than every other horse by almost half a second when the pace wasnt over killed.
I'll be interested to hear your comments Phil.
Well firstly Fat Al has won at 2000 so there is no doubt he can run 1600m RG. Secondly if you read my comments about Yosei before the race I said i doubted her at a mile. Pace not over killed? They went under 60 seconds for the first 1000m which is a bit quicker than I anticipated.

I've just watched the replay a few times. Really, how far should ROSIE ROCKET have won the race by if she had cover in the race? I'd say she wins by 2L. You admoniished me for mentioning that narrow victory Luckygray had at WFA over Rosie Rocket in June when he was second up. But you failed to mention that Rosie Rocket was first up after a 2.5 month break, so which horse was underdone??

I'm not bagging Luckgray. He is top drawer and he run was excellent on Saturday. BUT he was out the back bludging the whole race whilst a horse like RR was working wide the whole way. He got forced horribly wide on the turn but it did actually look as though he would sprout wings and win the race half way down the straight. He couldn't sustain it though and even seemed to lay out a touch, suggesting he didn't quite run it out with the big weight. Either that or he was in the wrong part of the track, the part where no horse won from all day! That factor definitely adds weight to your argument.
On what we've seen of him thus far do you think he is better @ 1400m or a mile?

Now he goes to 1800m with the weights very much in his favour at WFA. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why he got beat as a short priced favourite in the same race last year? He gets his chance this time to dismiss any doubts about his stamina. He might win but I couldn't take anything like the $2.75 offered up. $5 Playing God, $9 Ranger, $13.00 Mr Moet, $15 Rosie Rocket. He'll probably beat Ranger home but not sure about the other 3.

I'm not professing to be an expert and I'm quite often wrong. Just my opinion atm that his optimum distance is 1400m. Happy to be proven wrong.

You are spot Phil his pet Distance is 1200-1400 1800m will really test him and at WFA I would say no chance in Qld
:-B
I agree he[LG] wont run a strong 1800m didnt last year and wont this year Mr Moet has won at WFA is on the up 10s is a good price ,a couple of mates have 80-1 Mr Moet in the KT
Only a bad ride from Donga will see Luckygray beaten.They will run along and make it a true staying test but the fact is LG is the best horse in WA, with a sprint that no horse can match. Last year he was a handicapper who was well placed in the Railway. Even if you dismiss the fact that he wasn't 100% in the KT, it wasn't a suprise he was beaten at WFA. This time around he gets weight turn arounds in his favour and is third up,not at the end of along prep. I honestly thought they were bonkers for even nominating for the Railway thisyear, and thought the KT was a much more realistic summer target.
If you say they will make it a true run staying event then LG has none !!! If they walk and make it a sprint home then he wins .
He isnt a stayer he is a middle distance horse and a mile sees him out i understand he meets them all better on weights but just reckon he is better at 1400m -1600m IMO is to short to get on now

He could sit dead last and still win off a hot tempo. If they ride him more forward though that is where his rivals could dampen his sprint.2000m might be adifferent story but heshould be able to get away with a truly run 1800m. Diatribe won a Caulfied Cup by sitting last off a hot speed and there is no way he was a genuine mile & a half horse.

ICE · November 2012

LG 117 for a second WTF

RIO · November 2012

So it gets beaten by a 97 rater and goes up a point???????? Doesn't sound right to me, but then again i have NFI.. :))

ICE · November 2012

:)

Rogue_Green · November 2012

ICE said:
LG 117 for a second WTF

To be fair it was almost a career best run. But he didnt win, so really he shouldnt get a penalty. WA raters are just rating him out of Perth, shame really for Perth Racing.
I see Mr Moet up to 112. Ouch, a horse with 24 races under his belt. Unlikely to be progressing that much that he will be competitive in Weight for age race in the East. Possibly a 10 furlong race here, but otherwise i cant see him even figuring in the Perth Cup.
Shame how one big win can shoot ratings up so high. Same thing happened to Luckygray last year, but he was progressing and i still think he has more scope left.

carey · November 2012

it probably does not matter what its rating is any more.
61 is the normal maximum weight a horse will carry over there in a handicap,and he was already at that level basically.
and ratings are irrelevant in wfa races, although the way they rate horse coming out of wfa races is mostly not logical.

G'day Punter!

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