2015 Railway Stakes

DamienWyer · October 2015

Amovatio will head to Perth after winning the Listed Weekend Hussler Stakes 1400M for both the Railway and Kingston Town.

The Bowler is targeted to come over after his next run.

Legless · October 2015

:-? is BHB the best local hope?

AndrewCarter · October 2015

In a word no, Amovatio also lacks the class to win a Railway as does The Bowler.

therealkramer · October 2015

It would be interesting if Lucky Hussler made the trip-especially if Disposition runs. LH is a two time G1 winner now and was a narrow 2nd in the Emirates so he would be one of the better credentialed Eastern States milers to contest the race.

DamienWyer · October 2015

Pity we couldn't attract the quality of Press Statement. By the time the Railway is run, he will be in the paddock.

It's interesting you speak of class Andrew, few Railway winners actually own it.

AndrewCarter · October 2015

That's rubbish Damien, I did a Railway Stakes feature profile for Racetrack or Turf Monthly (can't remember which I would have to check my records) years ago which highlighted what an outstanding race its been over the years and how the form had held up from past winners and placegetters with many going on to enjoy success in the east.

thefalcon · October 2015

I reckon Waller will send 1 or 2 over, damo.

JayJay · October 2015

2014 - Elite Belle
2013 - Luckygray
2012 - Mr Moet
2011 - Luckygray
2010 - Gathering
2009 - Sniper's Bullet
2008 - Gilded Venom
2007 - El Presedente
2006 - Belle Bizare
2005 - Covertly
2004 - Modem
2003 - Hardrada
2002 - Old Fashion
2001 - Old Comrade
2000 - Northerly
1999 - Slavonic
1998 (Dec.) - Machine Gun Tom
1998 (Jan.) - Willoughby
1996 - Bold Extreme
1995 - Jacks Or Better
1994 (Dec.) - Zaparri
1994 (Jan.) - Island Morn
1992 - Welcome Knight
1991 - M'Lady's Jewel
1990 - Medicine Kid
1989 - Better Loosen Up
1988 - Marwong
1987 (Dec.) - Jungle Dawn
1987 (Jan.) - Miss Muffet
1985 - Valley Of Carome
1984 - Eastern Temple
1983 (Dec.) - Getting Closer
1983 (Jan.) - Sanatate
1981 - Iko
1980 - Golden Heights
1979 - Asian Beau
1978 - Sarsha's Choice
1977 (Dec.) - Marjoleo
1977 (Jan.) - Alpine Wind
1975 - Detonator
1974 - Cambana Lad
1973 - Starglow
1972 - Millefleurs
1971 - Royal Spring
1970 - Kilrickle

tom · October 2015

agree Damien other than maybe snipers bullet or the ill fated gilded venom theirs not a hell a lot of class there( I am thinking consistent group perfomers australia wide) since old comrade won

thefalcon · October 2015

bit premature guys......lets just wait and see when noms come out, eh?

dungy · October 2015

Andrew Carter said:
That's rubbish Damien, I did a Railway Stakes feature profile for Racetrack or Turf Monthly (can't remember which I would have to check my records) years ago which highlighted what an outstanding race its been over the years and how the form had held up from past winners and placegetters with many going on to enjoy success in the east.

Your talking bollocks again for a change ,outside of The fighting Tiger and Old Comrade maybe just maybe Gilded Venom the rest are gr-2 horses at best since 1990

dungy · October 2015

Legless said:
:-? is BHB the best local hope?

I would have thought ,plus Real Love ,Disposition but the mile is a question mark for him as he didnt see it out on Sat if they bring a good gr-1 horse to Perth the Railway is all but over

Chelsea · October 2015

Without a doubt the best local hope will be Delicacy,she will frighten off a lot of the 2nd string raiders

Chelsea · October 2015

You will also have to consider Battle Hero,(if he makes the field with his light weight.the 1600 for him is perfect)and Hazabeel

therealkramer · October 2015

dungy said:

Andrew Carter said:
That's rubbish Damien, I did a Railway Stakes feature profile for Racetrack or Turf Monthly (can't remember which I would have to check my records) years ago which highlighted what an outstanding race its been over the years and how the form had held up from past winners and placegetters with many going on to enjoy success in the east.
Your talking bollocks again for a change ,outside of The fighting Tiger and Old Comrade maybe just maybe Gilded Venom the rest are gr-2 horses at best since 1990

My memory of El Presidente(14 starts: 10-1-1, $1,011,365) cutting a swathe through the late spring/summer a few years ago means I have to disagree with you there. He won 5/7 starts(beaten a nose and protested unsuccessfully in another) that prep including The R J Peters Stakes & Railway. I though t he was an odds on chance in the Railway and they offered 7-4....easy money. Probably the most confident I've been before a major race outside of Black Piranha in the '09 Straddie

dungy · October 2015

therealkramer said:

dungy said:

Andrew Carter said:
That's rubbish Damien, I did a Railway Stakes feature profile for Racetrack or Turf Monthly (can't remember which I would have to check my records) years ago which highlighted what an outstanding race its been over the years and how the form had held up from past winners and placegetters with many going on to enjoy success in the east.
Your talking bollocks again for a change ,outside of The fighting Tiger and Old Comrade maybe just maybe Gilded Venom the rest are gr-2 horses at best since 1990
My memory of El Presidente(14 starts: 10-1-1, $1,011,365) cutting a swathe through the late spring/summer a few years ago means I have to disagree with you there. He won 5/7 starts(beaten a nose and protested unsuccessfully in another) that prep including The R J Peters Stakes & Railway. I though t he was an odds on chance in the Railway and they offered 7-4....easy money. Probably the most confident I've been before a major race outside of Black Piranha in the '09 Straddie

Ohhh thats right El Prez was the E I champion not a single horse came over Delicacy is the main local hope for sure

Darkhorse · October 2015

I doubt BHB will get the trip, 1400 will see him gassed on the line. Saying that I think he is one of our best.

therealkramer · October 2015

dungy said:

therealkramer said:

dungy said:

Andrew Carter said:
That's rubbish Damien, I did a Railway Stakes feature profile for Racetrack or Turf Monthly (can't remember which I would have to check my records) years ago which highlighted what an outstanding race its been over the years and how the form had held up from past winners and placegetters with many going on to enjoy success in the east.
Your talking bollocks again for a change ,outside of The fighting Tiger and Old Comrade maybe just maybe Gilded Venom the rest are gr-2 horses at best since 1990
My memory of El Presidente(14 starts: 10-1-1, $1,011,365) cutting a swathe through the late spring/summer a few years ago means I have to disagree with you there. He won 5/7 starts(beaten a nose and protested unsuccessfully in another) that prep including The R J Peters Stakes & Railway. I though t he was an odds on chance in the Railway and they offered 7-4....easy money. Probably the most confident I've been before a major race outside of Black Piranha in the '09 Straddie
Ohhh thats right El Prez was the E I champion not a single horse came over Delicacy is the main local hope for sure

Delicacy has every right to be fav no matter what comes across.

AndrewCarter · October 2015

Well just off the top my head Sniper's Bullet was twice Group 1 placed immediately after the Railway Slavonic won the William Reid or Australia Day Stakes at WFA what ever it was called then at MV resuming straight after the Railway, El Presidente would have beaten anything going around at the time but broke down and Gilded Venom sadly died.
Mr Moet stormed home into second in the Group 1 1400m WFA C F Orr stakes behind All Too Hard and should have gone very close.
All Too Hard was arguably the best horse in the country at the time, Willoughby won the Chester Manifold and the Blamey at its next couple of starts and ran numerous WFA placings over there etc,etc, do we even have to mention Old Comrade's and Northerly's deeds.
Elite Belle sadly died as well. Summer Beau was another top liner, the list could go on and on.
All very easy to make snap judgments but when you do a little research the facts are quite different.

H-BOMBER · October 2015

Given the "failure" of Lankan Rupee on the weekend, would a trip to Perth be worth it?

therealkramer · October 2015

H-BOMBER said:
Given the "failure" of Lankan Rupee on the weekend, would a trip to Perth be worth it?

I doubt they can solve his problems in a month. Some pretty ordinary horses beat him on saturday

JayJay · October 2015

I think it is fair to say that the quality has not been there for the last 10 or 12 years.....with no disrespect whatsoever to Lucky Gray or Mr Moet or any of the other winners. But when you look at Better Loosen Up, Northerly, Old Comrade, Asian Beau, Getting Closer (and others)......they were the real deal as Group 1 horses of undoubted standing. As a group 1 mile race, it is miles away from the Doncaster, Epsom etc and has become relatively...and I stress relatively because it is still tough to win one.....easy pickings. By that I mean, a decent group 2 or 3 horse can get the job done.

DamienWyer · October 2015

Andrew is very selective in his arguments, always has been. In true fashion of his journalist colleagues, he never let's the odd fact stand in the way of his point of view.

Perhaps only once in the last ten years, because anything past that is no longer running in any location, has a decent horse won the race, that could have been argued was a Group 1 horse. That's Snipers Bullet. Anything else was only WA standard that couldn't win Interstate, and in the case of Gathering, Interstate B grade that could only snag a Group 1 race here, and never won again anywhere.

The race isn't a real Group 1, hasn't been for a long time. The Goodwood in Adelaide used to be referred to as the weakest Group 1 in the country, I think it is our Railway Stakes, because not even a $1M purse can change that. For what turns up, it is a Group 2. to invest $1M is just silly, as with a $500,000 purse, no change would be recorded in the fields it attracts. It is surpassed only by the Kingston Town. That race is a Group 3 on it's best day. The money thrown at it is way out of kilter with the standard of the race.

You can call races whatever you like in grade, but the Railway Stakes will never attract a Stallion prospect looking to improve his palmares. At best it would add only support to an existing Group 1 winner that had won in another questionable location, like NZ, but nothing would change much in the commercial viability of a Stallion who only snagged our race.

Like as in years gone past, horses that have failed to meet higher standards in the Eastern States may consider coming here, but it's only an after thought.

DamienWyer · October 2015

'

thefalcon · October 2015

I think there may be 1 or 2 eastern staters specifically targeting our 2 group races.

H-BOMBER · October 2015

I love the Railway and the carnival we have, but I am realistic. When you see the horseflesh running around in Group Races during the Melbourne carnivals, the stock here cant compete, and generally in the last 10 years or so 2nd tier horses from the east come across, chancing their arm. You will never see any of the top raters come across anymore, its just not worth their time and travel. BUT, they did once.....what happened?

A Group race should have standard throughout OZ. If that cant be achieved then its not a group race. But every state needs their GP1 time in the sun so be it.

This might generate some anger, but is it a timing thing with our carnival? The races ALL seem to be after thoughts for the visitors. No top rater is going to come across as an after thought, their grand finals are already played. These races need to be the Grand Finals, not just for the locals. Just my 2c

spinking · October 2015

prizemoney for a start bomber remember when the perth cup once rivalled the Melbourne cup in stake money when the carnival was sort of compressed into that 2 - 3 week block when we had the Australian derby on boxing day a race that was won by some very good eastern staters I think that was sold off to the ajc or sjc one of them and it was later in December so gave them a chance to get here after the spring not like super sat now which is I think late november

thefalcon · October 2015

November is the only date we can have our day in the sun....oct. and early nov. belong to melb.sudney has its autumn/easter show, Brisbane june and july with Adelaide squeezed in there somewhere.

i'm sure a trainer or 2 from vic. understand their horse(es) are not quite good enough for their "home finals" and will target Perth..the prize $'s are not to be sniffed at..plus they MAY get a subsidy to come across.

the noms will be very interesting.

DamienWyer · October 2015

Damien Wyer said:
'

spinking said:
prizemoney for a start bomber remember when the perth cup once rivalled the Melbourne cup in stake money when the carnival was sort of compressed into that 2 - 3 week block when we had the Australian derby on boxing day a race that was won by some very good eastern staters I think that was sold off to the ajc or sjc one of them and it was later in December so gave them a chance to get here after the spring not like super sat now which is I think late november

Prize money means nothing. We have a $1M race that nobody can be talked into coming over for with genuine Group 1 horses.

AndrewCarter · October 2015

Mate you're massively overrating these ES particularly Vic horses, when pretty average horses such as Bippo No Bungus who was consistently getting beaten in rating races over here is competitive over there in listed and group mares company it speaks volumes about their standard, Mr Utopia couldn't lite his legs here anymore and nearly won the winter championship at Flemington last prep. Rommel won a stakes over there and he's nothing special he's handy but hardly a star, don't fall into the trap of overrating the standard of horse there.
Any trainer worth his salt who knowd how to travel properly and has the right horse shouldn't have any hesitation in going over there. How did that supposed champ The Cleaner fare here again last year???
Miss Rose De Lago has been winning and being very competitive over there and she was another going very poorly here prior to her leaving.
Please don't rabbit on about the Epsom being a great race anymore either, did you see this year's field apart from Winx who is genuine top class, there were very few genuine top liners in that event. There is a genuine dearth of top class horses around currently, last Saturday was the worst Caulfield Guineas in years apart from the winner.

AndrewCarter · October 2015

For pete sake Damien who gives a damn about stallion prospects, that's the reason why we no longer have Group 1 WFA stars competing year in, year out because god forbid breeders might have the value of their "unproven" star juveniles and hype "champions" devalued.
Punters and racegoers alike want good horses competing and genuinely proving themselves to be the best, not being kept in cotton wool as stallion prospects.

G'day Punter!

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