Melbourne Cup Preview

spinking · November 2015

Dungy that is exactly the chauvinistic crap she was talking about when you posted that bit of dribble did you think to yourself that apart from some of the hardluck stories in the run that this girl had just outridin some of the best jockeys in the world

bookielover · November 2015

If ever we needed an indication that generally speaking, on-course bookies are irrelevant, at least to our racing media and media in general, one needed to look no further than last nights 6.00 news on the Nine network in Melbourne and the Herald Sun today.

9 news spent 15 minutes reporting on the Cup. Plenty about the race, Michelle Payne, brother Stephen, all the fashions and the usual collection of nutters who attend.

There was not one shot of the bookies ring or any punters having a bet with an on-course bookie. In past years, this was always a staple of any news report.

Cut to today's Herald Sun. Every year, one of their racing writers would ask some of leading on-course bookies how the day had gone and some of the bets they had taken. Not one interview, not one word.

Just as an aside, Racing Victoria have had a TV advertising campaign to try and encourage people to go to the track, in particular Country race meetings. They have a jingle being sung in the background with the words "it's got it all".

You see shots of young people all smiling, horses running around, and the young people lining the rail cheering their horse home.

Not one betting ticket in any hand, not one shot of any of them having a bet with an on-course bookie.

I've spoken to a few bookies and some who work for them. Holdings are down on last year and they are having to take risks to win any money. They all won yesterday, how could you not.

One bookie who I spoke to who works in one particular area of the track, held $105,000 on Cup day last year. This year, he held $62,000, and that wasn't through lack of trying.

100 bookies are working at Flemington this year, although the actual number is around 85 as many have partnerships and two and three licenses.They copped a toweling on Saturday, although I know about one well known bookie working on the rails here in Melbourne for the carnival, who won.

Some have said to me that they will seriously be considering their futures.

A few licenses may be up for sale, but the heady days of getting $250,000 for a rails license, are well and truly over.

The next 10 years and maybe less, are going to prove pivotal to the continued existence of bookies around Australia. I have no doubt that there will always be bookies working at special meetings.

For example, if you are a bookie out there, you have got no chance of getting into Birdsville for their two day carnival unless someone dies. A bookie I know finally got in this year, that's right, someone died, and told me he's never seen anything like it. 13 races over two days, 13 bookies under a long shed, 7000-10,000 punters, no one knows the exact crowd, throwing money at you, holdings into the 6 figures, and 150% on the board and they back everything. Impossible to lose, he told me.

I reckon that it's going to become a boutique business, with only a few bookies manning stands at the main City tracks, with others seeking to work at Country cups, picnics and meetings like that.

Mind you, Racing Victoria are ahead of the game on this, and have insisted that if a bookie wants to work at a "good" meeting here in Victoria, they have to work a certain amount of meetings at the particular track through the year or they can't get in. That ensures that there are bookies at each meeting.

I know that you have had your views on the Cup, and all in all, it has to be one of the great sporting events anywhere in the world, and the carnival itself, probably unmatched by any other anywhere.

I have looked at the bookmaking side of things and reports that I have had from those that I know, and how the future is looking.

As Diva says, at least our bookies here are able to compete as best they can with the Corps and the fact is they are still finding it tough.

Which once again poses the question, how the heck are bookies in Perth supposed to survive even the next 3 years let alone 10.

thefalcon · November 2015

looking at yesterdays results i'd say there would not be enough mayne nickless trucks in Melbourne to cope with the cash...

hash · November 2015

squid69 said:
Spot on Tivers. Carnage in the straight. Payne and Walker?

Any news on who? I watched the replay and saw gust of wind shift out quite noticeably and maybe also hoko brave? Cassidy on GM was lucky to not get ko'd or fall off...

therealkramer · November 2015

hash said:

squid69 said:
Spot on Tivers. Carnage in the straight. Payne and Walker?
Any news on who? I watched the replay and saw gust of wind shift out quite noticeably and maybe also hoko brave? Cassidy on GM was lucky to not get ko'd or fall off...

Dettorri was fined $20k...but it was more than just him.

bookielover · November 2015

Falc,

A couple of bookies that I spoke to yesterday who work on the lawn and marquis areas, didn't win anywhere near as much as we would think they should have on Cup day.

Apparently every woman on track was having $5.00 each way and $10.00 each way on Michelle Payne. One bookie told me that he had to have $80.00 back at 140/1 on Betfair so that he'd win $3,500 on the race. Another told me that he held $11,000 on the race and only won $2,000. Max Dynamite wins him $7,500. Rails bookies laid it as well to the women punters, but by comparison with the smaller bookies spread around the track, it was insignificant, and they did need the Mayne Nickless trucks!!

On the other hand, those same bookies who work the Lawn, car park, marquis etc didn't do anywhere near the damage that the big boys did on Derby Day. Two that I spoke to only lost excess.

As one of them who works in one of the marquis pointed out to me, "we mainly lay horses at $7.00 and above each way where we are, and can have a good result when a fave wins provided we don't chase it. I won $1,200 on the derby even though the fave was backed on the rails from $3.20 into $2.90. I left it at $3.00 and couldn't lay it where I was. So we don't win as much on the big winning days, but we lose a lot less on the bad days".

But, as I did say, in another post, there was one visiting bookie from Interstate working on the rails on Derby Day who did win. Probably the smartest bookie anywhere in this Country, so no real surprise.

choc · November 2015

Heres my brief experience with the books at flemington on tuesday.
Walked downstairs into the main public ring on the way out, there was about 20 bookmakers lined up.
Half hr before the last, crowd had dissapated.
About 8 had a price up, the rest didnt.
Went to the first, asked politely for 400/200 wawail - most had 2.70 or 2.80 opening price, but hey no harm in asking and debating the market.
The first didnt even look up before saying gruffly "we havent set the market yet..."
No problem, move to the next, same question - didnt even look up before saying "get stuffed". True.
Ok, wasnt expecting that. A polite - cant bet you wouldve sufficed...
Next had a price, 2.80 - looked at me and said " nah"
Ok, youd think theyd had a wipe out instead of the bonanza most did
Bookie 4 - try next door, were at 2.70. At least he was polite about it.
Croseed over, bookie 5 had 2.90 - "hmm come back shortly..."
Bookie 6 - same price - gee, ok - but your robbing me you know..."
Horse started 9/4 and as we know got beat a half length - if it was going to be that hard, would have just sat upstairs and bet with the corporates like everyone else...
A little banter goes a long way, thats all im saying.

TheDiva · November 2015

How do you go asking for overs with the corporates tho choc?

choc · November 2015

Dead right Diva, no debate there.
Was just anticipating a little more candour, in an environment where you'd anticipate one would be clamouring for any business that may eventuate.

TheDiva · November 2015

I hear you...in fairness those big days can be stressful with a million once a year punters on course. They may have had enough of the banter by the last race.

choc · November 2015

Yep, I see your point.
Its just a shame that the Betting Ring will never again be the vibrant fascinating place that it once was.

youknowit · November 2015

They had probably also got sick of the pests asking for overs.Some punters seem to think its like a Bali market place where you barter a price. When it was vibrant etc etc bookies were betting 140%. They are now betting down to 108% even on carnival days.

choc · November 2015

Disagree with you here to an extent mate.
The very definition of a "market" is that a buyer will buy a commodity when he is happy with the price offered - likewise, a seller will sell when they are happy with the price obtained.
I was not inclined to want to take anything less than 2/1 - knowing that 5/2 had been freely available for the whole of the previous day.
Surely Im allowed to raise the question (in the right manner), rather than blindly taking a price Im not comfortable with...

Dont believe the Ring is anything like a Bali marketplace if a punter simply requests (again in the right manner) a greater price they're wishing to take.
I have a feeling that anyone on a Stand now would be far more grateful to have business to at least engage with, rather than not having the business at all.

therealkramer · November 2015

@choc Their job is to lay the chances at the lowest possible price. You are delusional if you think they'd offer 3-1 about a 7-4 chance 30mins before the jump. I've seen even money offered about 1-2 chances to $10 punters in times gone by but that was to a rather attractive blonde and I didn't bother asking for the same service....I knew what the answer would be [-(

choc · November 2015

Right, and my job is to obtain the best possible price that I can.
And I was asking for 2/1 mate, see above.
As it was 5/2 for the entire previous day - and eventually started 9/4 anyway - dont believe it was an unreasonable request, as evidenced by the fact that it was taken up anyway.

youknowit · November 2015

Well said RK. Choc and one of the bookies clients is standing next to you waiting to have $10000 on that horse and he bets you, an unknown, 2 to 1 would he then be compelled to bet his client the overs?

Wizard · November 2015

I checked my selections and if I took the all it would have cost a lousy $384 and I would have got the trifecta.

therealkramer · November 2015

Ok so 2-1. Same thing though if he bets you 2-1 30mins before the off and it starts at 5-4 then he's a mug. Bookmaking is not for the feint hearted-even moreso in these times. Ken Callender thought it was a road paved with gold but he soon found at it's a bit harder than that.

youknowit · November 2015

You are correct Realkramer. The best way to finish up with a small fortune as a bookmaker is to start of with a very large one.

rustyh · November 2015

:-SS
100% with you choc.
:-??
The day ya can't ask for a little overs because it's 'politically incorrect", you know we're rooted!
:-L

thefalcon · November 2015

PUNTA gives overs...cracker chaps but I CANNOT crack them..... :((

fair dinkum, I do not think I've won a cent from them....just one of those strange things that happen in racing.

Thoroly_Bread · November 2015

The Diva said:
How do you go asking for overs with the corporates tho choc?

That's why you bet with bookies on course bit of a back and forth dog fight for the day makes it more personal and enjoyable, some bookies are flat out rude to you I remember one at Ascot when I first started going to the races an old fella dunno who he is I asked for $500 on a horse and then asked what a consession bet was he told me if you don't know what that was you shouldn't be betting I said don't worry about it and walked away.... The horse got beat to by the way.

bookielover · November 2015

Choc, you are always allowed to ask, but shouldn't be surprised when the answer is no.

Even though they should have had a big day, and most of them got back what they had knocked off on Derby day plus, the only reason for rudeness from some, would be that they would have been there from 8.00 a.m and would be pretty tired. Generally speaking, I have always found bookies and their clerks to be well mannered, unless they are having a filthy day, and the pressure is on.

So while they should be civil to their customers, they are human and humans make mistakes.

One of my bookie mates told me that he was approached by a punter who asked him if he or any of his colleagues paid money back for second and third.

He said, no we don't mate. So the punter looked at him with a contemptuous look and said, "well I won't be betting with you guys today, I'm betting on my phone with Sportingbet".

No wonder some bookies get upset!!

therealkramer · November 2015

@bookielover They tend to have frayed nerves, your lot. I once got the biggest ear bashing by a bookie at Rosehill because I was obstructing his view of the tv screen which was 15m away from his stand. A bloke with a shorter fuse would have belted him. Your mate Alphonse probably would have buried him 8-X

Legless · November 2015

bookielover said:

One of my bookie mates told me that he was approached by a punter who asked him if he or any of his colleagues paid money back for second and third.

Do they still have concession bookies?

SLIPPERGOLDEN · November 2015

Doubles bookie was the way to go..... Take all bets and then bet back when you need to cover your butt.

Legless · November 2015

Herald Sun 7th November 2015. A tribute to the women who starred in this week's Flemington Melbourne Cup Carnival!

TheDiva · November 2015

Legless said:

bookielover said:

One of my bookie mates told me that he was approached by a punter who asked him if he or any of his colleagues paid money back for second and third.

Do they still have concession bookies?

A couple of Perth bookies still bet concession.

SLIPPERGOLDEN · November 2015

Grteat cartoon Legless and well done stating your source

Gilgamesh · November 2015

I bloody love that legless!!!

G'day Punter!

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