Harness Racing Manager

JayJay · February 2017

Harness Racing Manager Barry Hamilton has some interesting comments ....has highlighted a marked decline in foal numbers, marked decline in Industry participants, a marked decline in wagering turnover, a marked decline in on course attendance and on course wagering, difficulty in filling fields and race programs.
Then goes on to say "without being alarmist, the situation is both dire and not sustainable" and he will be developing a "new business model" (one of my hated pieces of jargon but that's irrelevant) looking at programming, scheduling and handicapping. Questions posed are Racing and Volume (when, where, what) and are there too many races? Handicapping - how useful is the M C R class system and can races be made more competitive and with fuller fields? Stakemoney - are the current percentages right and is the WESTBRED money being used effectively?

I reckon we could provide the answers for him in less than a page.....too many races at too many venues competing against too many irrelevant meetings at too many obscure places at whatever joint happens to be racing at that time anywhere in the world, a completely rooted handicapping system that allows (amongst other things) nonsensical allowances for 2 and 3 year old classic wins to be penalty free, combining with RBD races that allow for an extraordinary number of $1.04 favourites to completely stifle betting...you know, last seasons Derby winner starting from pole in a CO Maiden at Northam etc..., stake money distribution at outer country clubs that make it attractive for the large import laden stable to load up a truck load and go and beat up on the locals and the lesser stables....taking an intercontinental ballistic missile to a cap gun fight....thus destroying the local industry in one foul swoop (no fault of the big boys, they are just exploiting a ridiculous system......and phoney "group 1 racing that sees a sales or state based "group 1 winner" pocket an extraordinary amount of cash for being ordinary and never winning another race.

There you go Barry, that's a start. Now let's not have a 2 year talk fest while Rome burns, lets do something ...now. And finally, how about some theme based programming along the lines that was suggested on here just after the Inters......a 4 year old theme, A fillies mares theme, restoring the Standing start Fremantle Cup carnival, reviving the Easter Handicap heats and final and the Pacing Cup Heats and Finals along side the Xmas Gift and the Xmas Handicap.

Offthebit · February 2017

Well thought out and well written jayjay.

The point I agree with the most is too many races from obscure countries on sky overlapping our decent Friday night meetings. Since sky2 was established they have loaded up on wall to wall meetings. How can the younger generation fall in love with the big name drivers and champion horses, and want to reinvest on them week in week out, when we are given the same amount of air time as the camel races from Dubai? Or the 5 horse field over 5500m hurdle from England? It takes 7 or 8 minutes to run them and they usually get a couple of minutes lead in tim.

Meanwhile a group 1 at Gp worth $400k gets cut off the second that Richie calls the last horse home.

VillageKid · February 2017

How about fixturing a proper free for all for the fast class horses every Friday night as was the case in years gone by as we discussed recently.

And bring back the claimers!!!

savethegame · February 2017

Stop the wastage and stall the prizemoney increases at the top-end,re- pacing cups, inters they are just another race to the masses. re betting& the majority of licenced harness people if they live three live times,won't have a starter in the inters ...The dream is just flickering in most people you near on no a purchase of re 150-200k of a tried horse may allow you to be involved on a fast track basis ,but reality unless you breed.or can afford a high price yearling & hope for the best .its a mirage ............ . Our breeding industry the count is up to eight even to throw huge incentives at it would take 6-9 years to rebound and reload to get numbers that would have a huge impact, .As of now pronto mentioned it before a westbred 25,000 race at g.p...every fri night to kick start peoples thought process re buy local, one week c1-c4. next week c5-8 just rough more in depth re conditions number of wins starts etc ,plus hall&bonds may buy local tried horses...then a snowball effect takes place.

matt · February 2017

I believe Barry is a guest at tonight's BOTRA meeting

savethegame · February 2017

Wastage has been terrible people going to America to try entice horses here for inters, then found a horse at the back of Dublin treebranch d.j......The figure I was quoted the whole exercise cost over 100k, sorry meadow branch d.j. was the horses name......Then two battling local trainers who had two ten year olds .co.s were refused there first win bonus of 2k. even when they were sold under the westbred bonus,scheme, Total Gentleman in alan parker said them people should have reiceved there bonus but the jetsetters, would not allow it ... Those people should have got 10k for keeping 10year old cos .....but the love of there horses &the game, they shrugged there shoulders and move on .You would be surprised the amount of wastage plus how much you really could be racing for.

Newkidontheblock · February 2017

Hate to be devil's advocate but maybe Harness Racing can't be saved? Maybe it just is what it is, a product that can't be updated and refreshed to appeal to the new age punter? A tired, out of date betting medium which no longer has any real interest and has no way of being more appealing?

Many great ideas suggested above but the sport needs a total turnaround to be even viable and I doubt the industry has the ability to both attract the new punter or maintain the die hards?

I can remember GP Friday nights 10 years ago turning over around the $800k+ mark while today it's closer to $300k. How can such a dramatic decline ever be reversed? I, for one, don't think it can.

lame · February 2017

Don't think any business is thriving at the moment . Some of it is just trough's and peaks
Out of the box have they looked at true chariots as even jousting has taken off in recent times bit more of a spectacle to gather more participants
As far as breeding and participation goes is it the IRR or just people with the passion not making money though other streams to splash on horses ect that may or may not (more than likely not) paying for them self ?

savethegame · February 2017

Newkid;Part of me agrees with your outlook,but another part sees a pussyfoot approach,with powers to be on the wrong tram.......It is a no brainer that the people who put the show. receive prizemoney back to last,to soften the blow sick of hearing it encourages mediocrity.odds o n favs can get knocked out the race in the first 50 ......The amount of country clubs that have been tickled inhouse over the journey&some several times without the major body checking on there balance sheets at the start of each season without a micro- manage approach, check on them mid season. and then at the end of there respective seasons and the right person may able to offer guidance as well ..surely we finish up under the one umbrella with common goals,with trying to increase participation.....the feedback I get rwwa is a cushy job.

Markovina · February 2017

Newkidontheblock said:
Hate to be devil's advocate but maybe Harness Racing can't be saved? Maybe it just is what it is, a product that can't be updated and refreshed to appeal to the new age punter? A tired, out of date betting medium which no longer has any real interest and has no way of being more appealing?
Many great ideas suggested above but the sport needs a total turnaround to be even viable and I doubt the industry has the ability to both attract the new punter or maintain the die hards?
I can remember GP Friday nights 10 years ago turning over around the $800k+ mark while today it's closer to $300k. How can such a dramatic decline ever be reversed? I, for one, don't think it can.

I think you are wrong with your betting figures doom and gloom approach

Do a simple exercise - just look at the Trifecta and 1st 4 pools for GP on Tabcorp Vic and compare to Menangle on a Saturday Night Menangle meeting Tabcorp NSW - its chalk and cheese

GP Trifectas around 20k and 1st 4s 15k - Menangle are pisss poor - try 8k for trifecta and 4k for 1st 4s - there NSW Derby Heats - the Win Pools were only 20k

The only thing which saved NSW was the sale of Harold Park for over 100million prior to the that i can remember Neil Day saying NSW Trotting was like a slow killing cancer

I agree with Greg Bond - re GP - he said they should look at selling it - and building a bigger track somehere - i dont want another Menangle -1400 is way to big - but a well cambered 1000 metre circuit - alah Victor Harbour - where leaders and run on horses have got an equal chance

I mean those Tuesday meetings at GP are shockers - look at Sprinter last night - i didnt back it - its run was sensational - what beat it - was the disgracefully unfair track

You look at Albany ( which is a far more exciting spectactle - 2 horses fromthe outside gate over the sprint trip - led on their ear - you cant do that at GP where racing is one dimensional

Id sell GP - the interest or revenue earned each year on the money - could support a proper Westbred incentive

Ridersonthestorm33 · February 2017

Each to their own but the last thing would do is sell GP. We don't want another Menangle or Melton or Globe Derby way out in the middle of nowhere where nobody goes...there trying to get crowds up, not down , a move out to the sticks will be a kick in the guts to pacing here. Selling Richmond Raceway was going to solve everything - it didn't. Short term gain for long term pain. The strength of Gloucester Park is Gloucester Park - keep it that way. To move from a city track in a terrific location to the never lands would be a gigantic step backwards.

Newkidontheblock · February 2017

Sorry Marko, the figures I were quoting were win/place pools, not including novelties. I do agree with Riders, the one thing Western Australian Harness Racing has going for it is GP the location. What we didn't have 10-15 years ago was the competition for the punting dollar. In summer we have to compete with thoroughbred racing from the Valley, Canterbury, Sunshine Coast and now Cranbourne and Pakenham. These meetings always run late and usually GP is following them which then causes lead in time issues and in turn poor turnover. Winter has the ARL/NRL Friday blockbusters which again put Harness Racing on the back foot with the increased interest in Sports betting.

I can't back up this statement, it's just a gut feeling but I don't think a bigger track at GP, a shift to an outer location for the metro track or any special handicapping change will make one bit of difference with turnover long term. I think the addition of sprint lanes at some tracks is a perfect example with no real change to wagering at these locations.

As I said before, maybe it just is what it is?

curmudgeon · February 2017

Who is making the decisions re Harness Racing Policy at RWWA ?

What are their motives and agendas ?

Why do proven under performers get a second and third throw at the policy stumps without explanation?

How is RWWA influenced by vested interest lobbying ?

Why does the process of review lurch from crisis to crisis ?

Why are there so many non transparent changes of role, resignations and sackings at RWWA ?

Who pulls the strings and who are the sycophants and puppets ?

Where is the analysis and cohesion required to bind country and city club racing in a mutually beneficial upward trajectory?

Where has the unpaid Westbred bonus money from each season gone ?

Who is compiling meaningful statistics?

the list goes on and on

curmudgeon · February 2017

Newkidontheblock said:
Hate to be devil's advocate but maybe Harness Racing can't be saved? Maybe it just is what it is, a product that can't be updated and refreshed to appeal to the new age punter? A tired, out of date betting medium which no longer has any real interest and has no way of being more appealing?
Many great ideas suggested above but the sport needs a total turnaround to be even viable and I doubt the industry has the ability to both attract the new punter or maintain the die hards?
I can remember GP Friday nights 10 years ago turning over around the $800k+ mark while today it's closer to $300k. How can such a dramatic decline ever be reversed? I, for one, don't think it can.

The European scenario would suggest otherwise to me. Harness racing far outranks thoroughbred racing in popularity throughout France Scandinavia Finland etc. Therefore it cannot be said the decline in interest in the harness product is universal.The solution is to provide an altruistic distribution of stakemonies that will encourage people to stay in the game ,reinvest and demonstrate from within an ability to at least break even in putting on the show. Money talks or people walk .....

JayJay · February 2017

Piece of programming brilliance coming up with successive dead end meetings on Monday and Tuesday at GP....day meet on Monday, bewt, 35 degrees plus...and a twilight on the Tuesday....7 races on each card, 6 horse and 5 horse fields, other less than fully subscribed fields, two lots of costs, cleaning, amenties, food and bar staff payments, very few patrons other than participants....what's the point of this....scrap both meetings, make it a 10 race card at Bridgetown on the Sunday twilight and bolster up their not fully subscribed fields, ....If this is the sort of junk that Barry Hamilton is on about rectifying, then all power to him.

savethegame · February 2017

When Rob.Bovell &Kerry Hanks Left g.p. a fork appeared in the road, right was the right way, but the beak wetters went left.......Stand corrected they were the ones who implemented , chinese night,italian night and a Tuesday in july 2008 or 2009? one of you fellas might have been there because there was between 4,000---5,000 people. Christmas in july in conjuction with breeders assoc.?was the theme don't think they have had another one since for the genuine lovers of the industry bovell,hanks, parker, pyke,hughes caputo,....names that tried hard.

Markovina · February 2017

Can the GP track be made any bigger- i havent been their for years - but their used to be an administration building - when you walked in over to the right hand side - well you could knock that over - plus there seemed to be all this space - asphalt - passed the end of the home straight - to the left of the bird cage area - like you enter the main gates - then there is a decent walk to you get to the actual track - lawned areas and grandstands

Plus - at the other end of the track - the turn out of the back straight - and into the front straight - again i thought it was wasted space - i allways thought - could you tunnel into that hill/embankment area

I mean if the track could be extended to 900 or 950 metres and well cambered - it would be an infinetly better product on display

You read the stewards report ( and im not advocating sprint lanes ) and theres 15 horses a meeting held up for a clear run

curmudgeon · February 2017

Markovina said:
Can the GP track be made any bigger- i havent been their for years - but their used to be an administration building - when you walked in over to the right hand side - well you could knock that over - plus there seemed to be all this space - asphalt - passed the end of the home straight - to the left of the bird cage area - like you enter the main gates - then there is a decent walk to you get to the actual track - lawned areas and grandstands

Plus - at the other end of the track - the turn out of the back straight - and into the front straight - again i thought it was wasted space - i allways thought - could you tunnel into that hill/embankment area

I mean if the track could be extended to 900 or 950 metres and well cambered - it would be an infinetly better product on display

You read the stewards report ( and im not advocating sprint lanes ) and theres 15 horses a meeting held up for a clear run

If you recognise the problem and the sprint lane offers a 90% solution at GP....why wouldn't you advocate the inclusion of one? The cheats lane brainless slogan chant brigade has a lot to answer for......I am not having a go at you Marko....it just seems to me the remedy to the most visually unappealing aspects of harness racing at GP is a simple physical addition. Forget the whips....if you want to see dangerous cruel disregard for animals watch as desperate drivers try to force legs and heads into an inch of space or unavailable space as they go across the line.

savethegame · February 2017

CURMUDGEON; You put a crash helmet on it hurts that brick wall ,regards sprint lanes....Won't go through how it actually stops cheats again ..... ,The only time sprint lanes,becames a danger of serious manipulation,..... With stables having two or more runners,and the short price one starts gate1 and if there second runner starts gate 3,4,5.,6, and is in the market 2,3,or 4th fav.and then they are inclined to hand up to that runner &backing it, pretend they are coming at it and fail to catch it in the straight,.....Instead trying to spend weeks checking post betting records after the event stewards strictly on a confidentiatility basis the betting steward should ask the question of connections do they intend to bet first of all and how much they intend to invest, on there particular horses, in this circumstance,and what trainer has told them,guarentee a lot owners don't bet......Several times have mentioned the stewards to implement a rule changes re odm penalties for x amount runs if speed maps ,visual observation, betting fluctuations show a blue has occurred re leader.....fear re- penalties, has stopped a lot people drinking and driving.......these type of scenarios are becaming more prevalent changes and rearranges are needed to keep ahead of the game re level playing field for everyone, not hard. .

Gilgamesh · February 2017

I don't really like sprint lanes for how they work in NZ really one hands up to a horse who hands up who hands up etc. BUT what's the harm in giving it a go for say 3 months at GP to see if it does improve the racing? Every chance it can create more moves.

Also can we PLEASE!!!!! return the camber on the track to how it was prior to the big reno?

Markovina · February 2017

Gilgamesh said:
I don't really like sprint lanes for how they work in NZ really one hands up to a horse who hands up who hands up etc. BUT what's the harm in giving it a go for say 3 months at GP to see if it does improve the racing? Every chance it can create more moves.

Also can we PLEASE!!!!! return the camber on the track to how it was prior to the big reno?

Idont like sprint lanes - and by and large dont like NZ Harness Racing

I watched a NZ harness race about a year ago - a field of 5 ( Dexter Dunn was one of the drivers ) - there were three 7/4 equal favourites - the other 2 were 100 to 1

Guess what - and this is the truth - one of the 7/4 pops led - he handed up to the 2nd 7/4 pop - who in turn handed upto the 3rd 7/4 pop - i turned it off -i thought what a load of non competitive rubbish . Idont even watch their big races - not suggesting anything untoward over their - but its all too maty over their - Herrily is Purdons brother in law etc - there hardly going to park each other wide etc

The thing about WA Harness Racing - is the product is still very good - if you could have a 900-950 metre track at GP - the racing would be outstanding

JayJay · February 2017

Say it again...best racing I ever saw in the "modern era" so to speak was at Moonee Valley.....if they could leverage in a 900-950 track at GP with camber the same as the Valley, I think that would be ideal. Selling GP and shifting to the back of beyond, wherever, would be the end of the story.....a slow boat to oblivion in my view.

AbbysAce · February 2017

The 1st thing you would do is open the gates , FREE ENTRY EVERY WEEK

bar a couple

Newkidontheblock · February 2017

Can the GP track be made any bigger

for the genuine lovers of the industry bovell,hanks, parker, pyke,hughes caputo,....names that tried hard.

Pretty sure they have done the sums and the most they can get is an extra 50 or 60 metres (860m) for an outlay of millions, so financially not viable.

Another name STG that had a lot of good input was Gary Torto. Gary is still at RWWA I believe but is limited to doing IT work and has no input in other areas.

savethegame · February 2017

Newkid...The old chestnut, when you name names,guaranteed to miss a couple ,G.Torto being a big player in the industry on all fronts,in the office , owner, trainer think the man as a trainer lobbed a decent horse, the particular horse made it to a golden nugget final...... Horses name? .

JayJay · February 2017

Kings Rifle @savethegame ....ran 2nd to Saab in a Derby and maybe placed in a McInerney/Coca Cola/Romeo Hanover 4 year old classic...or whatever it was called....ran in the Nugget but didn't go on with it....injury?

buffy · February 2017

The sprint lane advantages one horse in a short straight like GP. The horse behind the leader who already has a pie run. Its universally called a cheats lane for a reason. As a punter, owner and trot goer and follower for 50 years ido my speed maps, do my form and bet accordingly. GP needs a 950 to 1000 mtre cambered track and a handicapping system

buffy · February 2017

that is fair and reasonable

Gilgamesh · February 2017

buffy said:
The sprint lane advantages one horse in a short straight like GP. The horse behind the leader who already has a pie run. Its universally called a cheats lane for a reason. As a punter, owner and trot goer and follower for 50 years ido my speed maps, do my form and bet accordingly. GP needs a 950 to 1000 mtre cambered track and a handicapping system

That is true but maybe a few more might make a move from the back if they think the leader is a chance of handing up to get that pie run, increasing the tempo and bringing others into the race. The obvious problem here though is the multiple runners from certain stables not handing up to horse a who has superior form but is trained by Jo Blogs, next week handing up to horse b who has lesser form but is wearing more suitable colours.

paraletic · February 2017

To me the notion that GP shouldnt be sold is bulldust. Nobody farkin goes there anyway so may as well sell up and move and pocket the cash. They are not making the most of the location. Or, use the resource to the best of its abilty. Promote the shite out of it as a proper friday night venue, free entry, happy hour etc etc. the way it is now it could be located up in Chidlow - the crowd numbers would be the same. So use it or lose (sell) it.

savethegame · February 2017

What sprint lanes bring to the table first of all above all else, two extra runners get a look at the judge,at the finish.....Punter all my life, not as often does the g.p.product appeal to me on punting front due to the well trodden too many shorties, the big stables have a monopoly, too many horses cross the line with the initials h.u.....the dynamics have changed with familys spare cash if theres is any left....harness was spoilt days gone by with limited competition .....Now phones, computers,foxtel,fri night casinos, gallops, football, basketball what ever else they can aim up under a set off lights,...now womens football, with the partners having a closer affinity with&the final say, you will be going to the football so it has became relentless.....The pro,s, coattuggers, urgers, re -sprintlanes, yell do your form, speed maps, mug drivers, etc... ,Because in there assessment four &five back the rails are near on scr.,because most times there aren't going to getting out....The punter in tab land with his spare 50-100 , the g.p.product doesn't offer on a regular enough basis ,for a smallout lay a large return on the novelties aspect....On the other hand there catchcry becomes, see how much those south africian first 4s are paying so that's where I'm playing,...group of friends pool there spare playing first 4s at s.a. they still do a g.p.one in a stand. because like sprint lanes they throw up more variables and hence possible better divs....But love country harness even there mobiles throw up so many variables

G'day Punter!

In this Discussion

Who's Online

Harness Racing Manager

Comments