In this Discussion
- bookielover August 2017
- Bucks March 2017
- buffy August 2017
- carey December 2017
- Chariotsonfire October 2017
- DamienWyer October 2017
- Fastmoney October 2017
- Fight_Milk March 2017
- goose August 2017
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- lame March 2017
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- Nevershowsurprise October 2017
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- SLIPPERGOLDEN May 2017
- spinking March 2017
- Tarantula August 2017
- TheDiva October 2017
- thefalcon December 2017
- TheFunkster March 2017
- Thumper December 2017
- Tivers August 2017
- tony September 2017
- whipitgood May 2017
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I've made it clear that i wont subscribe to it, as it is just another way of propping up the wealthier people within the industry. If it was fully funded from revenue of TAB then yes it should be included. Its not, so it cant be included as we are talking about funding for the entire industry. It only clouds the discussion as it is such a small amount of money in the overall scheme of things.
The rel figures that carey is using is more appropriate than the reports that RWWA put out, if they are accurate. As they are actually taken on the real dollars race by race, meeting by meeting. Including what is not paid out due to abandoned races.
Reinolt or whatever his name is, said it in his first note. That it is very hard to clearly define where the money comes from in the RWWA's anual report. From betting on WA product, East Coast product, sports, overseas, etc,etc So if you don't have that clarity it is hard to get an accurate fix if the industry is self funding or not.
It appears it isn't now, and any sale of the WATAB will reduce the returns even further. Especially now that the corporates generate the majority of the WA industries financing. So unless the government gives a significant guarantee of future funding, then we could easily be in deep shite very quickly if the TAB is sold. And we know from the Tassie experience any government guarantees are not worth the paper they are written on.
The time to sell the WATAB was 2-3 years ago, when the corporates didn't have the size of the market they have now. Why would they want to pay a high price and commit to industries funding now, when they are slowly taking the whole WA market anyway???
And for the majority of thoroughbred owners the stakes haven't increased in the past 10 years and the future isn't looking too bright...That is the main reason i know so many who are no longer into horse ownership. 10 years ago you had a chance to break even on your horse ownership experience. 5 years ago you had a chance to break even on your horse running costs. Now you have to be one of the very small percentage at the top of the tree, that can break even or make money out of a racehorse. If the one you get is a good one!
that said, i don't personally care if it's more or less, but my reading of the data is positive that it's not more.
i only would have used prizemoney to try and generate factors for when i was gambling, nothing else.
and is it self sustaining?
i bet it's not, i bet it's propped by the racing of other states, government, or money they already had.
Every betting/ racing jurisdiction relies to varying degrees on betting on other products to generate income.
Queensland would rely on punters betting on Victoria and NSW racing to generate added income.
Victoria and NSW to varying degrees would benefit from their respective punters betting on other products.
or am I missing something.
I don`t understand this argument about "self sustaining".
Where do you think the turnover, through the WA TAB, on events outside of WA should go?
RWWA identified 5 years ago the current model isn`t sustainable.
The 2 issues that can change that are a reduction on the highest wagering tax in Aus. (WA government decision) and a point of consumption tax.
RIO likes this post.
self sustaining is when THEY generate enough from THEIR own product to support that product.
i am left of centre by nature, but if racing(any racing anywhere) can't sustain itself then bad luck, they should not be propped up.
WA racing currently contributing around $80m in taxes.
Would apply to every racing state in Aus.
Even HK is now reliant on wagering from soccer.
hk is another country but i have exactly the same sentiment.
the tax was being paid by people like me, not the racing bodies themselves.
i can't be bothered going back and checking, but after rebates we would still have been paying probably an average of about 11 cents or more(i was not the money man but reckon it would be at least that) for every dollar invested.
the mug punters much much more.
i don't need it any more!!
and it proved that it didn't need me, or people like me, by taxing them so highly....or maybe it does need us as it turns out?
hong kong a long time ago shut the accounts of the syndicates, but it did not take them long to backtrack, because they started hurting.
Those who make a living from racing should be thankful some PTT contributors aren`t running racing.
Tivers, Voodoo likes this post.
but wouldn't Melbourne racing lose income/ stake money if Victorian punters didn't/ couldn't bet on NSW racing.
Stands to reason that all racing in Australia benefits from punters betting on other products.
there is NO other reason for it's existence.
and it would be simple to prove it too.
stop the gambling and watch what happens
even in my prime, i was mostly of the opinion that horse racing was as boring as watching grass grow.
every blue moon a horse would make me want to watch it, but essentially it was just what i did, the same as somebody may be a forklift driver, or nurse, or whatever....you simply go through the motions.
there is nothing exciting about it, to me at least.
tivers likes your comment i see, which is strange from a confirmed conservative!
maybe only a conservative depending....
would wa hurt if it lost income from victorian racing?
one needs the other much more than the other needs the one.
and to carry on from that, then you are saying that those that make their living from racing, are more entitled than those that have to do it all off their own bat?
Not sure there is anything constructive to agree or disagree with.
if you want to keep going fairly without denigration then fine, otherwise c u later.
My position is, with you having that view, no sensible discussion is possible.
Therefore now that we have edged over the 50% of profit being from non WA racing sources, we are at the point of no return. We CANT sustain our own industry with our own TAB - so it is of no value to the government anymore -as they are goign to have to start tipping in very soon - and it is of next to know value commercially as all the potential buyers already own the majority of the market. The window for a sale is nearly shut. The window for a good priced sale has long gone. Well 18-24 months, which in this volatile growth market is a long time.
I know you do Tivers......but when its 1 in 4 that has a win, it is another expense some of us just cant afford. 12k a year in the hope that you get a Saturday winner (to be in front)is not the chance a lot of the bottom 90% of owners can take.
your problem is that it's only sensible if you agree.
it's hardly my fault that wa racing is a small mainly inconsequential fish.
once a very attractive small fish admittedly for me, but those days are gone.
but even if i was still going my opinion would be the same.
racing and its participants should be no more entitled than anything else.
i have read that wa punters far prefer racing in other jurisdictions
than they do wa racing, so spend more on those other jurisdictions
but wa tab is still benefitting from those punters that are betting on other joints because it's still with the home tab?
RIO likes this post.
and i don't want richmond winning it.
but how do you know?
source?
i would find it hard to believe that afl gets anything, at least over here.
the clubs mostly have an unhealthy reliance on poker machines, except for north melb i believe.
federal government gives a pittance to grassroots i have heard.
and people go to the football unlike racing, so that must be worth oodles more to them
plus the media rights are zillions and zillions i believe, so why would they need it?
how much does racing get from media rights.....i would be guessing they have to pay rather than recieve in the main.