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Harness : No more whips

Harness & Greyhounds

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  • OffthebitOffthebit    617 posts
    edited December 2016
    Thanks for the update matt. The mark purdon style is the way to go. If every driver can learn to only give a handful of love taps in the home straight, everything should be sweet. The question is though, can ALL drivers in Australia adapt to his way of driving?

    cisco likes this post.

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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,951 posts
    edited December 2016
    How's the form of the bloke who voted for the ban without consulting the participants who voted him there or RWWA :-O

    cisco likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,341 posts
    Just my views

    I think the drivers are more upset ( and understandibly so ) that they wernt consulted - rather than the actual decision

    Im not a fan of the whip - the reasons being - i went to the  82  Inter dominion in Perth - the one Rhetts Law won . It was a standing start - huge crowd - so i decided to watch it at the end of the Bird cage - right at the starting position - right on the fence . Popular Alm was ODS and drawn right next to Burrows - they were on the second row . Burrows was in a sour mood - so Kevin Keys 30 seconds before the start got his whip and cracked it around both her back legs - it wasnt a tickle up - and it wasnt a good look -  i can see it like yesterday - Vinny Knight looked over in amazement .

    Plus the drivers cant be trusted - how many of them get fined $200 $400 f for improper whip use . Michael Bellman isnt a bad driver in Vic - in the last month - got fined $500 for improper whip use in a race - they cant help  themselves

    Plus i think the whip is overated - i think there is only one driver in WA who has a world class technique ( a technique that 95% of International drivers use ) and that is young Grantham ( who hardly uses the whip ) - and not talking out of my pocket - but im convinced if he had driven Hector Jayjay it would have won - young Aitken got very flippy flappy in the last 50 metres

    There was another brilliant example a couple of weeks back at Bunbury - where Todd McCarthy  shopwed great horsemanship to get a horse which had broken at its previous start for K Davies when in a winning position  - TM kept the hoprse hard on the bit - and did everything but talk to horse - and the whip wasnt part of his tool kit
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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts

    Marko

    Young Mick might have a world class whip action but his eye action is badly in need of some Fred Hollows type remedial action.

    He drove The Bucket List straight over the wheel of the horse in front of him a lap and a bit out ...luckily the horse is a brilliant gaited horse and forgave him his error by recovering and pacing on. He could just as easily ended up sprawled on the track. Granthams inexperience told late in the last lap...he should have run first 5 at least but was asked the question too far from home and faded late. Not knocking him and the game needs enthusiasm like his...just being firm but fair. No constructive criticism and you don't learn.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Finals night race3.Stuart Macdonald,master jaxon. Chris Lewis livura.Talk about synchronized actions whip and flicking the horse with there left reins.Don,t know how old that kiwi is but gee his  copying our best a.c.lewis ,in time stuart  will be  one  of  our best.There starting to realize it will be easier to control 1-2% repeat whip offenders,The stewards have the information available drivers records past 5years  should be assessed.        .Each state of aust. 5 worst whip offenders should be put on notice,that there not required in the industry unless they change.Some of these drivers would have at least 20 convictions.  So the  genuine   horse lovers   can go about there  business as is.The biggest problem  the industry faces is stables  with multiple runners,in races making it to hard  to deciphere  for  the  average  punter.,so there money goes else where.
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  • therealkramertherealkramer    8,008 posts
    They've got whips now though and they still seem to find ways to get beaten. Have a look at the ride on even money fav Arrokeefe, race 2 at Globe Derby? Just pathetic. Gets the one out-one back cover then allows itself to get boxed in by another runner moving from the rear of the field with a lap to go.
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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Chris Voak on Firebomb doing his best to ensure that whips are removed altogether.

    Ridiculous over use and the reason that this issue has arisen in the first place.
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  • JayJayJayJay    8,624 posts
    I counted 48 swipes with the whip....he actually drove him perfectly in terms of reading the race....stayed out of the early speed battle, waited for them to back off and got to the breeze pretty easily but was into him with the persuader pretty early from the 650m. I think he operated within the rules and the horse did keep going and hang on but it was an awful look.
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  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,358 posts
    In fairness to Voak I doubt whether Firebomb would have won without his cajoling but yes not a great look. 

    JayJay, curmudgeon likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    This driver is in a code--red area regards his future in the industry.With dec 22. H.R.V. signing with rspca. with regards sharing information on horse welfare, which I see it would be out of the stewards control and  a civil courts matter if issues are taken further.....The majority of harness followers have said firebomb wouldn't have won without his aggression probably true ......But more people enjoy watching these horses at rest then when they are competing in this day and age.Wasn't going to comment  but voak has to change and I hope he does as he has a talent.He knows the number of violations he has committed....Sure his 1,000 fine was demanded by high ranking union officials who witnessed  horses premlinary at collie mar2016.With phone cameras etc. even more reason to respect the horse.I am certaintly not going to let a couple people destroy the industry I enjoy.

    Offthebit likes this post.

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  • OffthebitOffthebit    617 posts
    Voak has little respect for the animal.......mark my words. The fact he still drives the way does after the industry has been put on notice, is proof in itself.

    Chariotsonfire likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    8,624 posts
    Trainers keep putting him on, so they are saying by their actions that they approve of his technique.
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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    JAY JAY; Admire your knowledge and outlook on things; But the one   that has stood the test of time is .     SHOW  ME  OR   TELL ME WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE AND I'LL TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE.The old nudge nudge wink wink. then we know who,s who at the zoo. 
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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    JayJay said:

    Trainers keep putting him on, so they are saying by their actions that they approve of his technique.

    That makes me question the true horsemanship of the trainers that keep putting him on.
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  • Browny123Browny123    97 posts
    Voak is a good kid..but put him on one about 18 months ago..came back cut to pieces..so no more thank you

    Offthebit likes this post.

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  • OffthebitOffthebit    617 posts
    JayJay said:

    Trainers keep putting him on, so they are saying by their actions that they approve of his technique.

    Mouse brennan gave him the old heave ho and the stable has jumped out of the ground ever since.....

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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    https://www.racenet.com.au/news/129994/OPINION:-Steve-Moran-–-Whip-ban-inevitable.

    Chariotsonfire likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    Going over old  ground the whip is 100% need to be carried for safety aspect for rider or driver......Very similar to knowing the comfort of having a seatbelt on not need to a dangerous situation arises .Braking hard ,smash, rollover.Then we all go lucky i had my seatbelt on......With horse the whip helps out in dangerous situations  when horse ducks out abrutly  .....Case example The late&great  ken Russell riding a horse at kalg.round called el cezanne   it dived out abruptly on the point of the bend in a heartbeat K.R. with whip outstretched put the  whip under horses eye across the bridge of its nose no hitting  sure avoid a nasty incident spoke with him after meet he said didn't want to finish up in the  members with his silks on,was the humour of the great man.....Champion northerly had aversion to going on tracks fred took home from Belmont one sat morn.he wouldn't  go on,  and when went to melb (caulf.) clint macdonald had to show him who's  boss. as wasn't going on  the  track.....Find one that tried harder with or without it raceday..
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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    savethegame said:

    JAY JAY; Admire your knowledge and outlook on things; But the one   that has stood the test of time is .     SHOW  ME  OR   TELL ME WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE AND I'LL TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE.The old nudge nudge wink wink. then we know who,s who at the zoo. 


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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    savethegame said:

    savethegame said:

    Sorry jay jay  trying to correct previous post with need to needed, need my seatbelt on.

    savethegame said:

    savethegame said:


    savethegame said:

    savethegame said:

    JAY JAY; Admire your knowledge and outlook on things; But the one   that has stood the test of time is .     SHOW  ME  OR   TELL ME WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE AND I'LL TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE.The old nudge nudge wink wink. then we know who,s who at the zoo. 


    savethegame said:

    Going over old  ground the whip is 100% need to be carried for safety aspect for rider or driver......Very similar to knowing the comfort of having a seatbelt on not need to a dangerous situation arises .Braking hard ,smash, rollover.Then we all go lucky i had my seatbelt on......With horse the whip helps out in dangerous situations  when horse ducks out abrutly  .....Case example The late&great  ken Russell riding a horse at kalg.round called el cezanne   it dived out abruptly on the point of the bend in a heartbeat K.R. with whip outstretched put the  whip under horses eye across the bridge of its nose no hitting  sure avoid a nasty incident spoke with him after meet he said didn't want to finish up in the  members with his silks on,was the humour of the great man.....Champion northerly had aversion to going on tracks fred took home from Belmont one sat morn.he wouldn't  go on,  and when went to melb (caulf.) clint macdonald had to show him who's  boss. as wasn't going on  the  track.....Find one that tried harder with or without it raceday..

    Browny123 dislikes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    3,216 posts
    sorry jay jay don't know what happened there still got my  Ls only wanted to correct the word need to needed, previous post
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/harness-racing-australia-puts-whip-ban-on-hold-20170609-gwok2u.html.

    Betonme likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    3,341 posts
    Big money ( several 100k plus races) at Menangle last Sunday - thus drivers couldnt help themselves - transgressing the whip rules to win the big cash

    Alford - $400 fine - Molly Kelly - won 125k race

    Greg Sugars $600 fine - - raising the hand above the shoulder when using the whip - Rock of America - won 102k race

    But Josh Aitken takes the cake - and his horse - Hector Jay Jay only ran 4th in Len Smith mile 100k race .. He  hit the wheel disks of the sulky with the whip - fined $2000 !!! . Stewards noted he had been fined 3 times in the last 60 days - for whip breaches .

    Drivers want to keep the whip - but keep breaking the rules
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  • TheDivaTheDiva    13,248 posts
    excuse my ignorance, but why is it worse to hit the wheel discs than overuse the whip on the horse? 

    sonny likes this post.

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  • sonnysonny    1,555 posts
    Mine also..
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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,951 posts
    edited June 2017
    Me too - however think it was more because of it being his third whip breach in sixty days. Saw one stewards report the other day for driver hitting the wheel discs of the sulky and the penalty was just a caution.

    Tend to agree with @Markovina if you are going to keep the whip abide by the rules. These big races where there is massive prize money and a piddly fine for breaking the rules is a joke. How about disqualifying a horse and amending placings - see how fast that ceases a driver from breaking the whip rule.

    Fascinating how you can break the rules breaching the whip rule but still hold your placing.
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  • Ridersonthestorm33Ridersonthestorm33    10,951 posts
    But am in favour of keeping the persuader. Just abide by the rules. No point having a 'Claytons' rule.
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  • FastmoneyFastmoney    4,912 posts
    Finally someone who isn`t pandering to the activists.

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/horseracing/harness-racing-nsw-rejects-whip-ban-and-moves-to-rewrite-rules-20170719-gxehs8.html.

    JayJay likes this post.

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  • paraleticparaletic    3,750 posts
    "The whip itself is not cruel, it is the way it is used that can be seen to be cruel."

    Who gives a pharque the way its being seen or perceived by the tree hugging di**heads. Its not cruel at all. 

    tofarkennard likes this post.

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    3,025 posts
    Not supporting the complete abolition of whips but photo evidence suggests otherwise paraletic.
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