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Harness & Greyhounds

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Always Fast.
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    GP AP winning positions 29/30/07
    GP
    10 Races
    6 leaders win
    3 additional winners from first 3
    AP
    9 Races
    2 leaders win
    2 additional winners from first three.

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    Had a good look last night - GP form  and replays 

    You know biased track - thus 2 tiny tiny e/w bets just for an interest 

    Race 6 - i think Noted is beatable - now if i was driving in that race - the tactics are so obvious - the no 1 Count Matai is hopeless - wont keep the leaders back - i will come out with venom for 200 metres - try to bust  open the field a bit - and get behind Noted

    Roll of Honour - its an ok horse - 1st up run was ok - it needs alot to go right - tiny tiny e/w

    Race 9 - dont rate the favorites at all - especially the no 1 . Sunpatra i think it is a dissappointing horse - 5 starts back at Bunbury - if it repeated that run - then it wins this race - then it gets beaten over 100 mtrs at GP - no abnormalties - that is a huge worry - then it was pretty plain last start at Pinjarra 

    I think this horse needs to be driven absolutely cold - come with its run 300 from home - thus a flukers hope - and again tiny tiny e/w for an interest 

    My serious bets are at Young Trots tonight - which ive already put on 
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Macs Gem has found a nice race.
    Pivotal
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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,847 posts
    Nine races GP tonight not one favourite successful.

    Four leaders won.

    VillageKid, Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    Yes i watched all the races last night - very rough conditions - youd have to be a brave soul to be out their last night 

    My summary - the good - the bad - and  the ugly

    The Good - Mister Ardee another very honest run last night - just a very genuine horse - 332k in stakemoney - raced for a long time - can remember it racing at Kal - never puts in a poor run 

     Also in the good - Cullen Star - easily career best run - sometimes when they put a top notch professional driver on board - you get that result like last night

    The Bad - Race 7 - 2 points to this - Arden Velocity bitterly dissappointing at the short price - walked in front and still couldnt win - and 2ndly - the winner  Batavia  Reactor - no wonder they queried the improvement - it had terrible form - it still had to sprint past that leader - its form card said it couldnt do it

    The Ugly - has to be Kyle Harpers drive on The  Mercenary - $126 pop - he has driven it at its previous starts - so he knows the horses capabilities - previous 7 runs - never finished closer than 35 metres to the winner - with 2 absolute lemon runs at Wagin/Notham beaten plus 55 metres - he posts Callan 3 wide the trip ( his horse ran a mighty race 2nd ) Kyles horse gets beaten plus 75 metres - that deserves a 2 -4 week suspensin for an unacceptable drive  . But here is the joke - the absolute joke - they give the horse - the poor horse a warning for a non competitive effort - thats what you get - when you have gallops stewards officiating at Trotting meetings

    freodockers, savethegame, Cant_Refuse, jum, capgun, LightningJake likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,806 posts
    Not hard to work out who he was shitspinner for.
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    He’s not alone STG.

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • YilgarnaYilgarna    32 posts
    The Ugly - has to be Kyle Harpers drive on The  Mercenary - $126 pop - he has driven it at its previous starts - so he knows the horses capabilities - previous 7 runs - never finished closer than 35 metres to the winner - with 2 absolute lemon runs at Wagin/Notham beaten plus 55 metres - he posts Callan 3 wide the trip ( his horse ran a mighty race 2nd ) Kyles horse gets beaten plus 75 metres - that deserves a 2 -4 week suspensin for an unacceptable drive  . But here is the joke - the absolute joke - they give the horse - the poor horse a warning for a non competitive effort - thats what you get - when you have gallops stewards officiating at Trotting meetings


    Who are the 'gallops stewards' you are referring to at the trots? The one that actually started out there? The former trainer reinsman? Or is it the one whose name is on stewards' panels in trots race books I have from the early 80s? 

    Another BS statement... 
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    The GP Stewards report was signed

    R Mance - Deputy Chief Steward - Thorougbreds/Harness

    When Barbara Scott was terminated - or not renewed - Harness Racing didnt get its own Chief Steward 
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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    To be fair R Mance come from VIC pacing family.
    Started as steward in WA pacing early 90s.
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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    Anyone with an ear loved listening to Judith Durham....and anyone with an eye loved watching Mount Eden. On Australia Day, January 26th, 1970 at Gloucester Park, Mount Eden won the Seeker's 3yo Handicap, beating Tartan Maid and Bronze Whaler, after teh Seekers were announced Australians Of The Year. Useless Sunday trivia.

    savethegame likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,806 posts
    Tartan Maid won a oaks  first yearling sale i went  too she had the highest price a filly sold for  5k. got a share in the highest price colt . by Garry Rowan outa Maoris express at that sale. he sold for 4250.----purely on memory  he had only one winner as a sire  Tresite or similar. in the book.  What  a great sire he turned out to  be Garry Rowan.---Judith Durham  odds-on favourite.
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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    edited August 2022
    Tartan Maid won an Oaks for Phil, speedy little filly out of Fred Doy's beautifully bred U Scott mare McKenzies Gift, raced okay against the boys as well. That very expensive (for the day) $5k filly was unraced, named Overmaid and threw a couple of decent horses, Spear Chukker and Juni Joe for Ray Duffy. The Garry Rowan colt was the first time Forest Lodge (Kevin Newbound) sold in WA....I don't think he sent over his best as the Vic Sale was very strong  but it was a good publicity tool for the sales. That boy raced as Eastbound. The HRA site has him only winning one race but that (surprise, surprise) is incorrect. 3 wins that I can find at Bunbury, Pinjarra and Kambalda and a heap of placings for R.W.Johnson. Trieste was the Gary Rowan horse from his first crop (1973) of 44 foals.

    VillageKid likes this post.

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  • savethegamesavethegame    2,806 posts
     Jay Jay a he also won at York, & Kalg.----With the kambalda meetings generally double headers the leading reinsman and Trainer would receive  new carts. The trainers who trained at Kambalda off the top.

     J.Pryce--,()  T.& D.Lines  B.Francis M.Lee. R.Burnham.B. Parker R.Moore BilL. Powell S. Roberts. P.Wright R.Penny B,Bentink B.Mellsop  W.Snell. D.fissioli. ones i can remember.

    Just on Kevin Newbound he placed Garry Rowans early crops around Australia so if he did fire as a sire  the spread was better then having five top ones  in one state was his reasoning . Special Garry & Garrys Advice were both passed in so he took them home broke them in and sold them as going concerns---Garrys Advice won 21 races as two year-old with Vin Knight----..

    Ray Sweetman got any amount winners from Newbounds thinking South Freo. footballer  Ray Bauskis was mixed up in a good horse Scotlyn Ray. with Sweetmans

    freodockers, VillageKid likes this post.

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  • JayJayJayJay    7,672 posts
    Yes, he won 18 in a row as a 2yo Garry's Advice. Without looking it up, I think Special Garry and Classic Garry were brothers (Gay Acres?) and Scotlyn Ray was by Classic Garry and was bred by Ray Sweetman. Ray Bauskis was Sweetman's son in law, married to daughter Lyn....and Lyn was the listed trainer of Classic Garry prior to Harper taking him over and FRK becoming his driver.

    freodockers, VillageKid likes this post.

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    savethegame said:

     Jay Jay a he also won at York, & Kalg.----With the kambalda meetings generally double headers the leading reinsman and Trainer would receive  new carts. The trainers who trained at Kambalda off the top.


     J.Pryce--,()  T.& D.Lines  B.Francis M.Lee. R.Burnham.B. Parker R.Moore BilL. Powell S. Roberts. P.Wright R.Penny B,Bentink B.Mellsop  W.Snell. D.fissioli. ones i can remember.

    Just on Kevin Newbound he placed Garry Rowans early crops around Australia so if he did fire as a sire  the spread was better then having five top ones  in one state was his reasoning . Special Garry & Garrys Advice were both passed in so he took them home broke them in and sold them as going concerns---Garrys Advice won 21 races as two year-old with Vin Knight----..

    Ray Sweetman got any amount winners from Newbounds thinking South Freo. footballer  Ray Bauskis was mixed up in a good horse Scotlyn Ray. with Sweetmans



    John Pryce was a good man had many great chats with him over the years, loved spending his days out at the Kambalda stables

    JayJay likes this post.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    GP Tonight
    Speedwagon
    Soho Gigolo
    All wood Wizard
    Mr Ardee

    JayJay, Gilgamesh, Cant_Refuse, Markovina, VillageKid likes this post.

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  • ChariotsonfireChariotsonfire    2,847 posts
    A perfect example of why I detest heat racing. I didn't bet so not talking through my kick. There is no way Fly To Fame would have handed up if it wasn't 1st to 4th to qualify. History abounds with similar driving tactics.
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    freodockers said:

    GP Tonight
    Speedwagon
    Soho Gigolo
    All wood Wizard
    Mr Ardee

    Allwood Wizard $11 fixed odds - well done 

    freodockers, Gilgamesh, VillageKid likes this post.

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  • Rocket_ReignRocket_Reign    844 posts
    Talking trots a great listen tonight about the future development of Gloucester Park, Radley speaks well and puts into perspective how important GP is to us here in WA. Definitely worth the listen

    PackedMetalPanda, Gilgamesh, Cant_Refuse likes this post.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,739 posts
    edited August 2022
    Rocket_Reign said:

    Talking trots a great listen tonight about the future development of Gloucester Park, Radley speaks well and puts into perspective how important GP is to us here in WA. Definitely worth the listen




    Something has to give I understand but the proposal is incredibly vague The one thing I can't get past is clearly no one involved in the process has stood on that side of the track and looked back towards the city between 5-7pm on a blaring summers afternoon, you will not be able to see the horses. So much fear they are building a white elephant. 

    Also not being able/willing to offer up a valuation for the land. I understand you keep that under wraps during the negotiation process but that is done now with the developers offer locked in. 

    So much off what is proposed is just along the lines of "trust us, this is the best deal"  it may well be but members and participants putting their trust in race clubs hasn't worked out great so far. 

    VillageKid, JayJay likes this post.

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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    I just listened to it - he is a nervous quick talker Radley 

    He must have said 5-7 times -its the off course Corporate bookmakers turnover - thats 90% of it - which is vital - and i can understand that point 

    He said - that Allan Parker said to him that this development ( to get the approval ) is the most  important thing to happen to GP since Brennan bought the land - RWWA are going to fund it to the tune of 25 million - state of the art of stabling etc 

    He said - ( boy he talks quickly ) that GP on a Frid night rates either 1 or 2 for turnover - but it is only opposed to country meetings over East - none of them run metro meetings on a Frid night 

    He laughed off the need for a bigger track - which to me is highly dissappointing 

    My summation - with the small track - no one can argue that you are showcasing harness racing properly - no one can logically say that 

    However i can see his point - and where he is coming from - you keep the leader  biased 800 metre goat track - then you also keep the proliferation of $1.10- $1.30 favourites and big punters ( and everyone who has backed them in the history of racing ) have gone broke backing them - but they love to put their 10k or 15k on them - they are punting idiots in my opinion - because they wont win - but they love putting that big coin on those short price favourites 

    So from a turnover aspect - the 800 metres suits them -but because Radley said - how the track plays ( screaming leaders ) is very important to the corporates  but as a spectacle it is utter garbage . 

    When they went from Subiaco oval - a long narropw skinny ground - they went to a perfect ground - dimension wise in Perth stadium 

    Surely the ground - or track - has to be important - if you want to showcase your product to the pinnacle 

    But we live in a Tom Waterhouse world - it is betting - betting - betting - betting
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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,739 posts
    I'd love for them to build a scaffold to simulate the facility they are intending to build, run a mock race/trial and film it both from where the memebers/punters would view the race AND where the cameras will film the race for the off course view.

    Film at 4pm or even earlier as we know come eastern states daylight savings we are starting around that time in summer.

    The last thing we want is a other Bunbury where for half a meeting you can not see the horses for half the race.

    curmudgeon, VillageKid, JayJay, Betonme, Cant_Refuse, LightningJake likes this post.

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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon    2,417 posts
    Gilgamesh said:

    I'd love for them to build a scaffold to simulate the facility they are intending to build, run a mock race/trial and film it both from where the memebers/punters would view the race AND where the cameras will film the race for the off course view.

    Film at 4pm or even earlier as we know come eastern states daylight savings we are starting around that time in summer.

    The last thing we want is a other Bunbury where for half a meeting you can not see the horses for half the race.

    There would be a very valid viewing reason GP was oriented originally as it is 

    Gilgamesh, JayJay, VillageKid, LightningJake likes this post.

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  • VillageKidVillageKid    2,280 posts
    Spot on Gil about looking into the sun if they move the grandstand to the river side.
    There is no way we would be racing before 7pm local time in Summer and day meetings would have to be a thing of the past if we moved as the patrons and punters watching on sky would barely be able to see the horses racing looking into the sun?
    You would have thought they would have done their due diligence on this beforehand?

    Having said all that GP does need a significant makeover as it has been run into the ground over the last few years!

    Gilgamesh likes this post.

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  • freodockersfreodockers    2,667 posts
    Why don’t they move the track into the river.
    Then we could have lots more boat races.
    If possible.
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  • MarkovinaMarkovina    2,906 posts
    To me if the redevelopment - included a 900-950 metre track with excellent cambering - then i would be all for it - it would be sensational 

    Radley made tjhe point re 800 metre track versus 1000 track ( and like all topics he discusses - like heritage - it is a 1 line sentence  that is it- said very quickly  ) 

    But his comparism of 800 to 1000 metres tracks - he said basically well over East - it hasnt done anything significant increasing turnover - there hasnt been a  giant leap in turnover with the bigger tracks - fair enough 

    But the point he seems to totally ignore - is the spectactle of harness racing - with the bigger track - its not one dimensional racing - horses can come from behind - so much more exciting 

    What i would like to happen is for a journalist ( eg Panda - Ernie - Ken - Tom - Hayden ) to  interview and asjk the participants - re the development - and the track staying at 800 - i want to hear - what Ross Oliveri - Andrew DeCampo - Colin Brown - Greg Bond - Mike Reed -Aldo - Ryan Bell -Nathan Turvey - i want to hear what they have to say about it 
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  • BetonmeBetonme    211 posts
    I think if you had to pick between Pinjarra and GP tracks, based on a "perceived" fairness for runners, Pinjarra would win out. Plus Pinjarra has added benefit of horses getting around it cleaner, as opposed to many getting on their knees etc on the tighter GP.
    I guess its been the debate for many years, to make it larger. Not sure why that hasn't been focused in this, maybe they don't have the room.

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  • GilgameshGilgamesh    4,739 posts
    Betonme said:

    I think if you had to pick between Pinjarra and GP tracks, based on a "perceived" fairness for runners, Pinjarra would win out. Plus Pinjarra has added benefit of horses getting around it cleaner, as opposed to many getting on their knees etc on the tighter GP.
    I guess its been the debate for many years, to make it larger. Not sure why that hasn't been focused in this, maybe they don't have the room.



    Yep there isn't the room.
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